Episode 20

20 - Parametric Beach Holiday

Jem in beach mode, Justin in Pants-Production mode. The guys discuss their dream future features of Fusion 360, their next products: KittaColin and ATC Pedestals. Also British Steak Chips.

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DISCUSSED:

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Please note: Show notes contains affiliate links.

  • Baby Pants Shipped!
  • Upcoming September LB product: KittaColin
  • Beach CAD
  • Gender balance in the industry
  • Recruiting challenges
  • PDXCNC ATC Pedestals Progress

What's your dream future of Fusion 360?

  • Drawings are almost unusable
  • Parameters are powerful but we want more!
  • If/then statements
  • Connect Fusion outside of itself: Zapier!
  • and Fusion 360 to Shopify 👀




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Show Info


HOSTS

Jem Freeman

Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia

Like Butter | Instagram | More Links


Justin Brouillette

Portland, Oregon, USA

PDX CNC | Instagram | More Links

Transcript
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you get those shortcuts mapped.

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You get comfy.

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And it's just like a left click, right.

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Click Bonanza.

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And you can just power through stuff so fast.

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Hey, how you doing?

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Yeah, transparent.

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Yep.

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Have other ones were quite aged and I honestly didn't think they

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were gonna, I found a crack in one of the arms before I went to the

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UK and I was a little concerned.

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Oh no,

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there.

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I'm still alive.

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Oh, I looked into the last, last time we were talking over each other quite a bit.

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And I looked into the time lag, and it's almost like three tenths

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of a second, through fiber optic.

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Yeah, no.

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Yeah.

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That explains why there's so much lag.

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Yeah.

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So it's like, that's a huge amount of time to like, not catch each other,

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it's almost like talking on a, walkie talkie at that point.

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Jim is just a, an orb of, oh, there he is.

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baby pants.

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Yeah.

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Hopefully, although I've got like maybe substandard beach, internet.

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Hello

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enough to get us through BA baby pants shipping out the

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Yeah.

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a momentous week.

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I said it sounds like you're on a phone.

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abandoned, abandoned video.

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That kind of works, I guess, oh my God.

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So baby pants shipping this week, it's a big one.

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yeah, baby pants finally shipping

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we kind of finishing things at the end of, or the beginning of the week, getting

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the, nested sheets kind of ready to go.

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And then once we started running 'em they were basically perfect.

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That's.

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We were joking how it was like a real sweat shop production of smashing

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little things, with your hands.

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Like very, very hands on, very sweaty, but we got less than we would've

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liked to in terms of like produced and shipped, but there are some shipped

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they're out, they're on the way to people and we should be able to finish it up.

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All the orders we have by next week.

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I think that's exciting.

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Fantastic.

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Awesome.

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That's great.

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yours

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is just picked

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it's exciting.

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Can't wait to get it.

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I'm already planning all the reels I'm gonna make about it.

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Oh,

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the what was I gonna say?

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Are the, the plastic, the ACE, was there a difference in brand

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like, cause I know ACE Dell's the brand and Ace's the plastic, right?

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Like did you shop

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So we've actually been using, we've been using HT P E because

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it's way more economical.

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Yeah,

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and from what I could see, other people making stuff like the, see's probably a

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better choice, you know, like if you're like stressing it to the nth degree, but

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after consulting a few people and looking at what else is out there, it seems fine.

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But yeah, there's kind of a weird shortage or like supply issues

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with all types of sheet plastic.

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So like one vendor would have stuff, the other one wouldn't and

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then now the same to all have it.

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I think I was saying, I don't know if it got cut off, the first sheet

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we had we've been testing with was actually kind of crappy it turns out

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to be a fine product, but it just took more cleanup than we wanted.

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And we got to the second sheet and started running that, and

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it's just like, beautiful.

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Like Ricky was literally giddy about how clean it was coming off.

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It's like cut all the hand, work out, basically of cleanup.

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yeah, right.

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Whenever I've cut HDP, I've found the, that hand work is quite labor

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intensive, like cleaning up all the little fluffy edges and, and stuff.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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And

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sounds like you've got a good recipe

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man, the first sheet was a lot of, we just were kind of going by the idea of

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like, well, okay, this is what it is.

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And then.

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Um,

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it was a lot of little fuzzy things at times and didn't change like any

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of the tools and then started cutting the second sheet and it just was fine.

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And I, I have from experience on, I think a C or, uh, M w the age of

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the material will change that too.

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I don't remember which way it goes, but it's like, it, it can be a few months

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and all of a sudden it's cleaner.

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I think if it's fresher, it's cleaner, but somebody will probably

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write and say, no, you're wrong.

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It's the opposite.

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surely it's like a good cheese it matures.

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yes, it gets smellier with time.

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Mmm, I love a good aged Delrin

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, it's been good.

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Been exciting.

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That's cool.

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Very cool.

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very good.

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And have you still got orders coming in?

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Yeah.

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There's we had oh three in the last day.

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24 hours.

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So, I mean, that's a little more than normal, but it's, it seems like

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whenever it catches people at the right time, I've been curious whether

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or not we, they will start to pick up they're ready to ship rather than

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some indefinite time line that I get.

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Like it's kind of hard to, especially if you don't know who they, like,

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we are maybe trust that we're gonna ship it or something, I guess.

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Yeah, for sure.

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it's been good morale.

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Like we've, you know, it's been a lot of like ups and downs with it.

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And when you start to see the boxes, get, stacked up that you're gonna send

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out, it's like such a great feeling of all the work that put into it.

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There's a little bit of animosity of like, what are people gonna think?

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You know, like actually trying it, but, also just kind of

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relief that at that point,

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Very cool.

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Well done.

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Nice.

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All right.

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Thanks for you guys,

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Yeah, pretty good.

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Mm.

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I am in beach mode a little bit, but.

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I had a good week.

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I've been there's again.

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I feel like we're just changing stuff constantly here, which we are.

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But basically I, I was failing to keep up with the quoting load.

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I think I said in last week's podcast, I missed it, but that was like the third or

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fourth week in a row where I'd missed my

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Hmm.

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targets.

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And I was just what was finding that I wasn't getting

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through as much as I needed to.

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So we've changed things around a little bit, again, just sort of temporarily,

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because we had also, at the same time, we had a real shortfall of detailing

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work, which meant that we were getting really slow out on the floor.

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So we've got, we've got more jobs than we've ever had before.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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But there's kind of this bottleneck where stuff hasn't been detailed

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and isn't ready for production.

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So.

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Being the, you know, that guy who can do everything it's, that means

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I can sort of jump in at whatever stage of the process I'm most useful.

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So I've been dropped back into detailing infusion just last week.

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taking a step back from sales, Aaron's stepping up and we've doubled

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these hours in quoting support.

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So he's kind of leading that at the moment.

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I'm trying to support the detailing side of things and which was quite

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delightful, actually just getting to sync whole lot of hours into fusion.

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It's been a while since I've done sort of any heavy lifting in there, like, you

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know, I'm doing bits and pieces and bit of product development and stuff like

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that, but not sort of punching out jobs.

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So that was quite satisfying.

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I bet

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Starting to feel like I was losing my touch a little bit, but it was great to

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jump in and start, you know, reestablish my templates and make some new ones.

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And so I've spent the last, I don't know, 48 hours re escaped down to the

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beach this weekend for a long, weekend.

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And I've spent a lot of time on the couch, just fiddling infusion, building

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new cabinet templates, cuz we've got a few sort of basically stock sort

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of cabinet making jobs coming up.

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So I need some really robust templates to build a whole lot

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of chipboards so that's fun

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here's, here's a probably.

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It's either too personal or you're not gonna care at all.

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Do you get any side eye for working on fusion when you're

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supposed to be on vacation?

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side no,

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no, no.

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no.

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Yeah, look, I, yes I do.

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I should, you know, I should be spending as much time as possible with the kids.

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Yeah.

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And I am, but when there's moments of downtime, my form of relaxation

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in this context is to pull out the laptop and just poke around,

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The same way.

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with parameters.

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So, yeah, it's not like I'm sort of busting out long hours, but it's, you

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know, it's sitting there it's I suppose, in my defense, um, I often think of it

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as like a sketch pad, like the fact that it's a laptop and as Chrome open, and

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Slack's probably still open somewhere in the background is unfortunate because

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at that point, when I'm in that head space, see it as like an, just an open

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sketchbook and pan and sort of it's sitting there, I'm aware of it and then

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I can walk over it to it and dabble and, you know, write down another entry in

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my journal or sketch out another idea.

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It's kind of the same thing.

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It's just the digital equivalent of that sketchbook at that point.

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I'm not, not clocking billable hours or thinking about clients,

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I'm just sort of noodling around.

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So

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Yeah, I'm the same.

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I do the same thing and I think it's always, I definitely go too far.

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I have gone too far with getting tied into an idea and a, you know, something

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that I'm really infatuated with solving on those in those circumstances.

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And so it turns into like a, are you ever gonna leave that thing kind of thing

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where I'm sure you're probably better at like, just knowing when to quit probably.

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And I, I think I'm sure the kids probably help make that happen too

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versus

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yeah.

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They drag drag you away pretty quickly.

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Yeah.

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Interesting.

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yeah, probably.

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Yeah, no, it is interesting.

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I had an interesting chat yesterday.

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A guy Alex from New Zealand reached out on Instagram and we caught up

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yesterday for a quick screen share.

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And chat about fusion, cuz he's, kind of doing the same thing at the moment.

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He's building out a whole bunch of cabinet templates and we just compared notes.

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It looks like we've got very similar approaches in terms of how we're

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doing our library and set up, but he had some really interesting ideas

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in terms of how he's doing things.

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It was cool.

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I felt like something about those last few reels I've done on Instagram, where I've

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used the script and screen shared some process out of fusion on rhino has kind

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of reinvigorated the DMS that I used to get a lot about, like how do you do this?

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Or what post process are you using?

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Or like what are you doing infusion versus rhino, blah, blah, blah, which is lovely.

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Cause I love talking to people about that stuff.

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It's kind of my happy place, you know,

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Yeah's interesting

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about

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I've met so many people that way, like digitally and then

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never actually met them.

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Right?

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Like that's not common, you meet people over the world without knowing it.

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And in a weird way, going to Birmingham, I, did physically meet a decent amount of

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people that I had never really would've.

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I mean, other than like a IMTS or something, there was no good reason

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why I would see them in person.

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So that's kind of cool, like to put real people, real physical

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bodies to like these, you know, Instagram handles basically.

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And just having talked about, you know, like those cabinets forever

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with throughout, Blockwood like to sit and chat about that in

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person was an interesting, you.

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Experience, I'm sure he's gone to many more of these type of events and done

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that, but it the real world is nice too.

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It's funny how we've lived in this like distance thing for so long.

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It feels like that whole experience of going to the UK, not to go back to that

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forever, but it was on that same idea.

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I was pretty conservative about like wearing a mask on the plane

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and all the way over there.

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Cause my goal was to get to the UK without getting sick by some chance.

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And there's definitely, I, I came to realize after I got there that, you

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know, nobody's really wearing masks in the UK and there's definitely a decent

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amount of people still in the states wearing them, you know, myself included.

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And I basically came to realize like everybody in the UK seemingly got

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vaccinated at the same time as like a, probably what most countries did, like

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when they could, they did it together.

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But there was this unfortunate movement of Being against that here seemingly

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and this distrust that was created kind of both ways that not to get too deep

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into that, but it's just like, it was kind of amazing to be in a place where

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you didn't have to worry about it.

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And maybe that's what your experience is like, I guess, but definitely not here.

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Still, even on the way back, there was people, more people on, you know,

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in masks than there were like there.

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So it's a weird experience.

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Yeah.

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And I think it was a pretty cohesive effort here to get VAX.

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I mean, obviously there's always

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Yeah, sure.

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but generally speaking in the circles we move in.

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Yeah.

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Everyone was on the same page.

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Like all of my staff got vaccinated.

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Before me without, you know, we never had to have a conversation at

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work about, it was just like, everyone just went out and did it.

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And, you know, I, I ended up being the, the one that was late in the end.

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So yeah, that was easy.

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And yeah,

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Yeah.

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Yeah, for sure.

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I think more than anything, my thought on that was just, it was nice to see

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so many people meet people, talk to smart people, but like being able to

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just kind of like wander around, go into a pub and not worry about like,

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I, it was always in the back of my mind, but like, it wasn't concerning.

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Like it is here sometimes, or it was, and it definitely changed some of my

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out outlook too on like coming back.

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I think there's just some PTSD for me.

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And like always being aware of that to either protect like myself or

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my family or a shop from bringing something, you know, to it.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Hey, had a comment slash question on the Autodesk event from the photos,

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it looked like a bit of a boys club.

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yes,

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any, any women invited or slash on the team?

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Yeah.

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There was very few and I think there was an effort to try to

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find some women to be included.

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And I don't know how your stats are.

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I think it's similar, like almost all of my metrics on YouTube, Instagram,

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it's like 98% men following.

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And I think the industry is just so strongly, at least maybe here in the

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states, it's so strongly male dominated.

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But it's definitely something that I've been trying to, like, I think

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we talked about this a little bit.

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Like I would love to hire people that weren't the same type, you

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know, the same category right.

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Of

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often here it's male and white.

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And

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yeah, no, unfortunately there wasn't very many and Autodesk does employ

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people that are not that for sure.

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It in terms of customers, there was not very many, I think there was

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only one woman that, that was there.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Interesting.

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Yeah,

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Needs to change for sure.

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does need to change interesting hearing your breakdown of stats.

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That's very high.

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I think haven't looked into it too deeply, but I know in

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Instagram we're sort of 50% is,

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Oh, it's probably about 60% male weighted.

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Yeah.

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not too bad.

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I'm guessing that's probably that you're retail facing

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consumer facing to a, to a strong

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Maybe.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Cuz I think we've talked about before you don't have a lot of

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like job applicants that are.

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Non mailer, right?

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Like it's mostly, mostly men.

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Is that, I think you said that

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when we're recruiting,

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Yeah.

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we don't do too badly in that

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Oh, nice.

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I thought you'd said that before.

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the team is certainly a bit biased,

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Yeah.

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Or waited the wrong way.

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But, and that's something I'd love to fix.

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But when we do, when we do do call outs for jobs, we get a, we get a pretty good

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mix of applicants, have to say reckon will be hiring again soon in the coming month.

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So I'm looking forward.

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Going through that recruitment process again, now that Sarah's kind of

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wrangling the, how that all works.

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And I think it's gonna be a much tighter and more professional

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process than it's been in the past.

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So

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It's hard.

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It's so hard.

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it is, it's so hard.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, I I've found in the past when we're recruiting that, you know, the

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tighter and more structured we are about it, actually the more enjoyable is yeah.

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And you know, and the better, better the results are as well in

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terms of who we end up getting.

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Yeah.

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you know, until, you know, a couple of years ago, I think we'd only ever done

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one sort of proper formal interview.

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Like it was always like really ad hoc of like, oh, you need a job, Michelle,

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come on, come, come and work for us.

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Yeah, the, we get on that.

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The, the better the results are, I think for everybody.

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It's definitely a different experience.

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I would surmise, I would guess.

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For you having what eight people versus most of my experience hiring has been,

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I have one to two people helping and honestly, even going from one to having

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somebody there versus I need somebody at all is a complete different experience

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of like, I, it's not desperation, but it's like, you know, I think you said

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one time, it's like, are you a warm body?

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Like, come on, let's go.

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Not that, you know, not discerning, it's such a different experience

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when you have, I would say backup or, you know, you have people that

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you trust to get stuff accomplished.

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And you're just trying to accentuate those, you know, situations or like

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take on some task set versus like, I just need somebody to help me,

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which is honestly, I feel like most of my hiring has been kind of that.

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Not that, yeah.

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I still am happy to have found the right people, but

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Mm.

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yeah.

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Get off the heavy, hard conversations.

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Back to a little bit of my trip.

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It was such a long time on planes that, especially on the way there, I,

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I had some good sketchbook time and it's like, sometimes that's really

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fruitful, you know, even in just the sense of like random stuff that is

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just kind of floating around your head.

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It's not like defined it's like forms or something like that.

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But in this circumstance, I was like, I really gotta figure out these.

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ATC pedestal things like how what's, what are the changes that need to be

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made that makes this like scalable.

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it just clicked all of the things that I was needing to

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like, think about and solve.

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And my fairly poor sketching skills actually served me well for once.

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And I like got everything drawn that I was like, oh man, I got all this figured out.

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So I didn't open,

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Fusion at all for that circumstance.

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But when I got back, I, and I think it was this week, a couple days ago,

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I just kind of tore through that and now have this like totally parametric

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like I can scale how many earn a row and like how the base plate works.

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And it all kind of like mounts together.

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We can make all the parts on our mill.

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Pretty easily, which is super exciting, cuz I was thinking some, the base part

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would have to be made by a bigger machine.

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But I, I think, I think I took that out of the equation.

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So I'm hoping to start prototyping those soon, cuz there's really not a

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lot to be figured out at this point.

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whereas you know, when you started them, it was like a lot of, a lot

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of question marks, but now that it's like second version, it feels fast

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Mm, fantastic.

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And it looks like something, or that was gonna be my next question, but you've

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already said it, but it's gonna be make

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yeah.

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I,

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you can make this thing on your,

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I think basically all parts, I still would probably do the like forks on the

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router just cuz I don't, they kind of work well, they can come from a sheet.

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We might actually I'm really hoping we can use the drop from the dust boots to be.

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I don't know if HTP is gonna be an acceptable material for that.

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But we'll test it.

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And if, if so, we've got plenty of material for that then, which is kind

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of cool, like finds a good use for it.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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Drop such a good word.

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Yeah.

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yeah.

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With like a lot of words for that.

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Yeah.

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Um,

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The floor.

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that's cool.

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Yeah.

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many of those can you fit?

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Like, can you theoretically build those into a matrix on your table

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or can you only have one row?

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can you build those into a matrix or can you only have sort of one row across the

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Uh, I am fairly certain you could do.

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Pretty complex things like somebody asked me if you could do

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a row facing each way recently.

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And I think that's probably very possible my experience with

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modifying the controller is been somewhat limited in that I modified

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it to work in the same movement.

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So like the challenge with that would be after a certain tool number, it

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would have to know to switch movements, to pick up the next tool set, you

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know, forward, moving it X positive versus X negative kind of thing.

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But I've seen people move those all around and it's just a

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matter of, I guess, solving it.

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But I, yeah, at this point my goal was to, for us, was to go from, we had five at the

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time when we started to, you could get 10 from shop saver and ours currently has 12.

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On the four by eight machine.

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And a lot of people do have a larger machine than that.

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So my thought is the five, five by machines, five by 10 or 12

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machines can do like 16 possibly.

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and then it helps with the dust collection possibilities as well.

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Like there's a whole another level I haven't gotten to with the dust collection

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where we can start to focus the dust boots lower portion a little bit more.

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If you have the tool posts like we do, cuz then they're not like I had to kind

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of go with a method that allowed, I DT know if you remember any of the old

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or if you've seen 'em, but the shops saver has like a bar that goes across.

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So you have to compress the bristles and you can't have anything in the way of

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that.

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that's right.

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So I think there's a lot more we could do still with that,

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which is kind of exciting.

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Yeah.

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So if you sort of develop your ecosystem of tool post and dust boot, you could

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make them sort of more efficient again, if assuming they're working together.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Nice.

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Yeah.

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I'm, excited for your development of this sort of range of tooling related things.

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It's cool.

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it's an interesting, we always thought, oh, this is a possibility, but most of my

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ideas always came through and like more along the like aesthetic knack products.

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And it finally just started to click, I think once we got the dust boot figured

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out and the tool posts that we had, and, and then, you know, it's been nice.

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Yeah.

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What's

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Jumping back to you.

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What's your, do you have a September like butter product ready that, or, or

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you don't have to say what it is, but is there something in the works that's close.

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yeah.

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For end of August.

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Yeah, there is, it's not fresh, fresh.

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It's a sub variant of kid parts.

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It's this little collaboration we did with a YouTube channel called never too small.

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They ran a design exhibition last year.

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I think it was.

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And we designed a piece for that called Kitter Colin, and then we've

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gone into sort of partnership with them where we're gonna release it

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as kind of a cross branded piece.

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Yeah.

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that is almost ready to go.

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. I could release it next week, but then I think I'd get in trouble for

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not having done all the prep work because with this, with the monthly

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product releases, it's meant that Jay and Sarah have started building out

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a checklist of everything that has to be done before a product is released.

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And that checklist is looking outrageously long and complicated these days.

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So I don't know whether I'm gonna check all those boxes, but

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we'll see how we go next week.

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I've got the upholstery, it's got an upholstery element

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and this will be our first

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I dunno,

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upholstery and it, so it was delicious to see those come in last week.

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They're just these lovely little

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simple seat pads,

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seat pad.

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Yeah,

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yeah, beautiful wall really nicely upholstered.

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And then they're gonna get this laser engraved sort of limited edition

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plate fixed up underneath them.

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So I think that'll be the last element to come in.

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Is that laser cut, laser engraved,

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um, component that gets then fixed off to the Appell tree.

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So, yeah, we're pretty close.

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I don't know if we'll get it out the door next week, but we should,

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at least, I reckon we'll be able to open up pre-orders next week.

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yeah.

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Um, just, I just need to shoot the fabric options and go from there.

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That's cool.

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I like, I like the, the spin.

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It kind of looks like.

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I think that was John, right.

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That made the kind of like, it's almost like that little thing at the top is

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similar to the thing you made that had it's like two pieces that can rotate.

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sense?

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holder.

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Yeah, a couple holder reminds me of

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, well, we've got John's little plant concept two, which

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is super close.

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Um,

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yeah.

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That could have come out this month as well.

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But I think we'll, that'll be soon and yeah, we'll get

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kid Colin out the door first.

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Yeah.

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Very cool.

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Cause we've had quite a lot of pre interests, like,

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pre-registration for that.

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So hopefully we'll be able to get some tasty sales going.

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Yeah.

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Does that partnership drive a lot of traffic then?

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I think it will.

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Yeah.

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They've got a huge subscriber base.

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And they produce really nice video and photography content.

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So their part of the deal was sort of producing that content.

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Yeah.

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And then depending on how they, oh, where my Internet's gone completely,

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no wonder we're having trouble.

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Depending on how.

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How they sort of distribute that content.

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I think that'll really help drive a

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lot of traffic cuz they've got a million plus YouTube subs, I

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Yeah.

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I saw that.

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My friend, Joe, I've mentioned a few times, he mentioned that YouTube is now

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doing a thing a new feature that if you have a Shopify store, you can connect

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products to like your YouTube channel.

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And I think show them on different uploads.

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So you may look into that.

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I don't know how it works with like a partnership deal, but.

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For your own channel, at least.

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How does that work?

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Like what do, what do you actually display in the video

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Or is it just a way of

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I think, you know, you've seen like how people have like merch down there.

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You seen that before, like a, like a hoodie or a t-shirt or something is pretty

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common and you tie it to one of those.

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Like, it's pretty popular in states.

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Anyway.

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It's like, there's these drop ship houses that make stuff for those

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big YouTubers and they just send it out so they never have to touch it.

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Which would be very nice if you're that large.

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And I'm guessing it's gonna look like that, but that kind of leads me into

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I was already feeling super limited by Squarespace eCommerce stuff.

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So I'm pretty certain I'm gonna move all the CNC stuff, but at least the

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shop over to Shopify here sometime.

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And it's been an interesting process of.

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I actually started playing with that on the plane.

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And it was a little bit slow internet wise to to keep doing eCommerce

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development on a international flight.

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But yeah, some stuff works really well.

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Like they have an importer for, for all of the physical products, but it

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only pulls over like the short blurb of text and like, not all of the

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extra, like the stuff you build, right.

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That's like at the bottom of a, all the product pages.

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So that's all still like stuck on the other side and none of the digital

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products moved over for some reason.

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it seems a tall task.

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Yeah.

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So you've, you've already got both feet in both camps, right?

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Like you've got Shopify for

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Yeah.

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NA that's right.

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Yeah.

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And then you wanna move the scene

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The CNC

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to Shopify as well.

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Yeah.

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It's just like, the more we've been doing, the variant options are limited.

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The, like, I can't integrate when I get an order from Squarespace.

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I can't pull it into air table, even with Z here.

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Like it's not an option.

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Honestly, it feels like it's buried to see the commerce, which is the shop stuff.

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It's like a, a couple tabs deep.

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And like, you can't do much with the customer accounts.

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Like, and just a lot of it's kind of an afterthought almost in my, my thoughts.

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Mm, yep.

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That makes sense.

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Cool.

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Well, that sounds like a meaty project

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yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to do it in a way that's not gonna

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like consume me for two weeks.

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But I don't, I don't want to take forever either, you know,

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not, not do it because of that.

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Well, at some point you just need to send it right.

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And roll it over

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That's kind of what my thought was,

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issues.

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as similar to what you kind of did was get everything moved and in terms

Speaker:

of like actual products and, you know, so that it's purchasable and

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stuff like that, and then turn it on and just keep fixing stuff as I go.

Speaker:

But there's just so many more options like with filtering and

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like all the plugins you can do and,

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Mm.

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Yeah, I find Shopify's pretty good for developing stuff offline to a point

Speaker:

Interesting.

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How

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as long as you're not, not too plug in heavy you can sort of

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run it all in a sort of offline,

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Interesting.

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mode.

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I haven't done that.

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Getting it ready?

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Yeah.

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You can have duplicates of your theme and sort of run a new theme unpublished

Speaker:

and get everything ready and then just switch the theme over and yeah.

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I thought you were meeting like a local developer environment and

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I was like, man, that's fancy.

Speaker:

you can, Jay did do that for our recent build.

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They built a GI up,

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sorry, a GitHub repository and did it all fancy like that.

Speaker:

But then I think in the end we just ended up sticking with the

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Shopify sort of interface online.

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But

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I, I know Jay though.

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now me neither.

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Never too small has 2.1, 6 million subscribers.

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that's crazy

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I don't

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know.

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Yeah.

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They've grown really fast too.

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Like, I don't think they're the, channel's that old, maybe a

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couple of years old or something.

Speaker:

What's the story like what's their, I guess I could read it, but

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it's.

Speaker:

As I understand it Colin, whose channel it is just started filming

Speaker:

people's little apartments and

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Like, you know, cute, well designed tiny apartment in Hong Kong and

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then a little apartment in Paris.

Speaker:

And like, I think he was kind of, he was on the road pre COVID and just

Speaker:

made, started making these little videos of people's cool spaces and it, yeah,

Speaker:

it's obviously just blown up and like, they've got a, a team of staff now

Speaker:

wow.

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yeah.

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Amazing.

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Pretty cool.

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So, and they great to work with

Speaker:

Yeah, it's cool.

Speaker:

I'll watch something when I have some weekend time.

Speaker:

I'm sure I'll love it.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Oh, excuse me.

Speaker:

Sorry.

Speaker:

Cough.

Speaker:

There's gonna be some major spikes in my audio.

Speaker:

you, you were right about your your sniffle, your mute button needs last week.

Speaker:

That was, That was,

Speaker:

That was,

Speaker:

a, it wasn't hard, but it was, it was up there.

Speaker:

It was up there with the the cutouts

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

feeling

Speaker:

yeah, you sound, you sound better.

Speaker:

Now I'm good.

Speaker:

I'm good.

Speaker:

Now my I'm properly offline now.

Speaker:

So my air table notes are

Speaker:

to copy those

Speaker:

absence, but, what's future of fusion, 360,

Speaker:

I think, you should start with that because I I've, I was trying

Speaker:

to, I was curious what you've thought about in terms of potential

Speaker:

mm.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Now it's an interesting one.

Speaker:

I mean, there's so much about fusion that I don't use, and I appreciate

Speaker:

that it's cold fusion and they're trying to pack a huge amount of

Speaker:

functionality into one package.

Speaker:

Um, but you know, for me personally, I'm only really interested in

Speaker:

the design workspace and the cam the manufacturing workspace.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I do use the rendering workspace a little bit.

Speaker:

So that's kind of handy byproduct to have that sitting there.

Speaker:

But you know, at this stage I'm completely disinterested in sort of

Speaker:

generative design and things like that.

Speaker:

I mean, there's so much in the package, like Electronic design

Speaker:

and yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker:

Um, it's an, an amazing piece of software.

Speaker:

So all power to them.

Speaker:

Well done, I reckon, but getting to where they're at.

Speaker:

but the things that I would like to see, I would know let's just start with what bugs

Speaker:

me, the things that irritate me most that I'd like to see improved are drawings.

Speaker:

I just find almost unusable.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

I I was chatting to this other cabinet maker yesterday and we were both kind of

Speaker:

in the same camp of like, let we just, neither of us use the drawing function

Speaker:

cause we both find it so irritating.

Speaker:

We'll do everything we can to get away with.

Speaker:

Having to output drawing.

Speaker:

So in my case, that's, you know, that's using description, screen capture and

Speaker:

doing, you know, quick little videos for clients where I walk them through

Speaker:

a model and pick it apart for them.

Speaker:

And that's been a really effective tool to me and for me, and that's, you

Speaker:

know, big part of the reason I do that.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

I find it effective, but it also means that I don't have to detailed drawings

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

and, and then other than drawings, I think parametric design is why

Speaker:

I switched from rhino to fusion

Speaker:

and chasing those parameters.

Speaker:

So the parameters are just incredibly powerful.

Speaker:

So I'd love to see sort of more in that space of the limits that I run up against

Speaker:

are when I'm trying to make cabinet models with lefthanded and right-handed versions.

Speaker:

And.

Speaker:

Yes,

Speaker:

Two draws three draws.

Speaker:

Like, yeah, you can do cool stuff with linear, linear arrays and try and fudge

Speaker:

it by creating like binary switches with counts that go from zero to one and stuff.

Speaker:

But then, yeah, it's just, it's not quite there and it's kind of feels a

Speaker:

bit hacky trying to do it that way.

Speaker:

So I'd love to see more sort of complexity in the parameter space.

Speaker:

It's interesting.

Speaker:

You bring that up.

Speaker:

That one of the common requests that I've seen kind of on the forum

Speaker:

and publicly, and, you know, in different places is, is parameters

Speaker:

within the cam space, like machining manufacturing, and that's, you know

Speaker:

been in the works for years, supposedly.

Speaker:

And It would make a huge difference.

Speaker:

I literally, you know, this week with doing patterns and one of

Speaker:

the things I constantly want to be able to do is pattern modify

Speaker:

patterns through NC programs.

Speaker:

So like, if I want a two by two creative parts, I want, I don't know, I have to

Speaker:

have a separate setup for that, where then the is potentially different and you

Speaker:

get a different look or so that that's a slight bit, but, you know, honestly,

Speaker:

I haven't, I've run into a, a bunch of different problems over the years.

Speaker:

I've used fusion with the parameters are cool, but they're really limited

Speaker:

compared to like probably what you've experienced with like grasshopper.

Speaker:

There's so many more possibilities with the way you can do simple.

Speaker:

Like what, what does it come down?

Speaker:

Do some type of mathematical formulas is, but that, you know, one of those like

Speaker:

parameters I think is what they call 'em.

Speaker:

But Math equation features . I haven't seen a much movement for more

Speaker:

like, the thing I want is if then statements more than anything in terms

Speaker:

of

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Building picking in some, some logic.

Speaker:

That'd be cool.

Speaker:

I mean, yeah.

Speaker:

And having those parameters be able to flow across workspaces would be wonderful.

Speaker:

Like if you could just, I've always just got control P or

Speaker:

command P mapped to parameters.

Speaker:

If I could just mash that in the manufacturing workspace or

Speaker:

the rendering workspace and able to update anywhere, that would

Speaker:

yeah, there's like two other major things that we kind of hit on some of it last

Speaker:

week that I've really wanted, or I have a dream of, I guess, at this point, One is

Speaker:

to like have fusion more connected outside of itself, we hit on that with like

Speaker:

the idea of air table being connected, or if there's a Z API connection.

Speaker:

I think some of this is coming their intention I know is to make the API

Speaker:

more public and like open and, you know, honestly as a person that can't

Speaker:

code all that well, or at all, what I want is them to connect it to zer or

Speaker:

straight to air table would be ideal.

Speaker:

And then by putting it into zer that allows something that's kind of the next

Speaker:

level for me is I'd love a connection between selfishly, but I think it's

Speaker:

fairly reasonable for a product design suite is I want to be able to connect

Speaker:

my design some form of my design.

Speaker:

Assets with infusion to like Shopify directly.

Speaker:

I don't wanna have to have something in between.

Speaker:

The dream.

Speaker:

and you know, I wanna pipe in the 3d model.

Speaker:

I wanna you know, be cool if you could just somehow sync your renderings

Speaker:

or like there's a whole lot there that you know, pull different

Speaker:

like dimensionality or something.

Speaker:

It, you know, there's a lot of potential that and we keep, you know,

Speaker:

you and I have this dream of some type of configurator of products that

Speaker:

I think somewhere between those two pieces of technology could be created.

Speaker:

yeah, that's, that's really my next desire outside of like, just

Speaker:

some small internal improvements.

Speaker:

sure.

Speaker:

Well, I feel like it's so close in a sense too.

Speaker:

Like I think that's why it's

Speaker:

exciting slash frustrating at times, cuz you know, fusion is online.

Speaker:

You can open your model in a browser and it's been around and pull it apart.

Speaker:

So like it feels like not much of a leap to go from there to

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

that accessible within another website like Shopify or you know, why can't I

Speaker:

access my parameters via the web browser?

Speaker:

Like it's all so close.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So that's, that's an exciting space.

Speaker:

Um, I managed to get in a room with some Autodesk people a few years ago

Speaker:

when we started building our first Shopify website and we had a great chat

Speaker:

and kind of quickly sort of ran into.

Speaker:

Why that wasn't gonna work yet.

Speaker:

In terms of forge and, you know, having to pay for server time, every time a

Speaker:

customer turned a, turned a knob, like changed a, a dimension on a set of

Speaker:

shelves, it was gonna ping off another server request another cost and, you know,

Speaker:

custom another few dollars in server time.

Speaker:

So it's, it's not designed for that.

Speaker:

And it's not, we're not there yet, but I feel like it is very close.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It'd be, who knows how long you knew that kind of idea is, but yeah, I don't know.

Speaker:

It definitely this kind of thing obviously came up for me as

Speaker:

having gone last week and just,

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I think people have, a lot of people, I think that do CNC

Speaker:

work, do some design work.

Speaker:

And so there's a minimal amount of like fixturing design and stuff like that.

Speaker:

You know, if you're a job shop, but for people like you and I, where we're like,

Speaker:

I don't know, I wouldn't say pushing the limits, but we're like trying to

Speaker:

get everything we can out of out of the parameter space and, and design.

Speaker:

And it's like, just give us a little bit more, you know, we're used to

Speaker:

this other capability that you're already doing these great things.

Speaker:

All parameters are so powerful for cam too.

Speaker:

Like even if you're, you are a job shop and you just like punching out

Speaker:

other people's part, like some of the stuff Rob Lockwood's done with like

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

templates using parametric, stock bodies and all that just really clever.

Speaker:

It's not super complex, but just super smart use of parameters

Speaker:

and automatic stock set up.

Speaker:

I think that stuff's.

Speaker:

The Rob Lockwood container method, container container

Speaker:

Yeah, Yeah, yeah,

Speaker:

model TM

Speaker:

We've all watched that lecture, right?

Speaker:

yes.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I put a link to it, Rob.

Speaker:

Well, if you haven't seen it, it's, I like the, basically the first time

Speaker:

I met Rob in person was at the fusion academy and he had given basically

Speaker:

that pitch on his continuer method.

Speaker:

And a little session I watched and I've just had this, like I think I immediately,

Speaker:

I went up to him afterwards was like, how do I do this for nested parts?

Speaker:

And he was like, well, not quite as easy, but I think it's possible because like

Speaker:

a lot of the benefit of it is it will start to generate a lot of cam for you.

Speaker:

If you're doing like a single part device, you can basically have

Speaker:

it do roughing and, and surfacing finishing by just generating those

Speaker:

files and having things pre-selected.

Speaker:

And if you haven't seen it, you definitely have to watch whole

Speaker:

link is video on how it works.

Speaker:

But it's definitely, I know a lot of people use that kind of thing,

Speaker:

especially when you're milling single parts and device, there's

Speaker:

some kind of a fixed work holding.

Speaker:

It's brilliant.

Speaker:

Yeah, it's fantastic.

Speaker:

Yeah, I definitely had moments this week where I was getting my teeth

Speaker:

back into fusion workspace properly,

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

and I definitely had a few moments of like, oh, rhino.

Speaker:

so powerful.

Speaker:

Why don't you just do all the, why don't you just do all the things rhino.

Speaker:

Cause I you're so fast and clean and, but yeah.

Speaker:

It's hard to describe to people that haven't used rhino for a

Speaker:

decent amount of time, like how fast it is, but it's like, the abil.

Speaker:

Like if you, I'm assuming you use a lot of text commands, like via the keyboard.

Speaker:

I've got, yeah, I use a lot of single letter.

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker:

are they called?

Speaker:

Macro

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

So my left left hand is like poised in a certain position on my keyboard.

Speaker:

And like, I've got a couple of things mapped on my mouse as well.

Speaker:

And so it's just like, yeah, it's ridiculously fast.

Speaker:

You're getting me all hot and bothered.

Speaker:

Like the work blow.

Speaker:

I'm not saying I'm an incredible operator.

Speaker:

I'm just saying, yeah, you get, you get those shortcuts mapped.

Speaker:

You get comfy.

Speaker:

And it's just like a left click, right.

Speaker:

Click Bonanza.

Speaker:

And you can just power through stuff so fast.

Speaker:

It's

Speaker:

It it's like being a court stenographer of rhino.

Speaker:

Like once you get those, your macros figured out, it's like, just click,

Speaker:

click, click, click, click, click.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's it's brilliant for, I always call it my Swiss army knife

Speaker:

because it's like everything that fusion can't do or is slow at.

Speaker:

I'm just like, you know, dropping stuff in there.

Speaker:

And so I guess we didn't even hit on that, but we'll have to

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link to your your configurator.

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Is that last week?

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No, I think it was fresh this week.

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Your, your configurator.

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uh, I think we mentioned that

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last

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week.

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Yeah.

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the the 3d one

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parts

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yes we did.

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Nevermind.

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Still

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good.

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This.

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still good.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Good times.

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Good times.

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But yeah, that block instance, counting function is fantastic.

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I.

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have those been, being able to present them like that help to convert

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people on purchases of custom ones?

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funny timing, having gone from feeling like I was doing one a day.

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I don't think I had one this week.

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No, we, jinx it.

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I, that I didn't get to use that new 3d thing yet.

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So hopefully soon.

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Yeah,

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oh yeah, that'd be you probably already do this.

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You really?

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I haven't used it myself yet, but that whole like idea of sending

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somebody a screen recording in the quote is brilliant.

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Cause it's like such a personalized thing.

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Do you do that with those?

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Sure do,

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Justin, here's what I've drawn up for your, you know, your corner unit,

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blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and drop that link into Quotient To the line

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item and then yeah, it's all there.

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You made me blush when you said my name, I was, I was like, whoa, whoa, he's talking

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oh,

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me.

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yeah.

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That's good.

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People seem to really appreciate those little videos.

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No kidding.

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It's and we talked about that before, but it's so good.

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Even when you just drop 'em like the 3d view and infusion, right?

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Like the share of public link.

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It's like that usually gets a lot of, excitement.

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Yeah.

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I think you pulling sort of sharing your process with people

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I think is really effective.

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Like I've always pre COVID.

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I used to really enjoy that as well.

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Like sitting down for a meeting with someone in the office and opening up

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rhino and like, you know, basically modeling a solution to what we're

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talking about in real time, as we're chatting always a really effective tool

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A sexy Don Draper move.

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And that's where, rhino shines.

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Cuz you just like, hold on.

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Gimme three seconds.

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Just give me a moment.

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Yeah.

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And of those little videos that I've made over the last week, the screen capture

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videos for Instagram have been I haven't seen engagement levels that high maybe

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ever, like there's, there's that blend of talking, getting a bit nerdy in terms of

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how we're doing stuff in terms of process, but at the same time, sort of presenting

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a design concept and talking about the what and why, and sort of pulling

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people into your process, I think yeah.

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Has meant that those little videos have been ultra effective,

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You know what?

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I

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bet.

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I almost guarantee that it's kind of how, like the thumbnail thing works on YouTube.

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I guarantee that it is higher engagement because you're recording

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yourself as well, as a video

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clip, because when it's just a screen recording and you don't have that

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person to connect to the average person that sees that's gonna go,

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what the heck is gem talking about?

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I don't,

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who

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is this?

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You know, like there's nobody to, to latch onto basically.

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Mm-hmm yep.

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Yeah.

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Oh, well, next step would just be to get that second camera set up the, get

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the DSLR, framed Shelly depths of fear.

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Oh yeah.

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Then I can cut between the two cameras, you know,

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in my new my new YouTube studio booth

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you get that long

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hot pink neons.

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Yeah, that's it.

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That's why I moved it around just for that long

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No, it was, it was already pretty good.

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You have that like nice triangulated fabric background.

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Did you make those?

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Yeah, that's a product.

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There are remnants from a product that we cut for someone else.

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It's like an acoustic

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product wood.

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Woo.

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Yeah.

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There

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you know, one of the other weird things that probably better

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to show, but maybe I'll throw through our photo on, on too, but.

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Hmm

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Maybe you've had this experience when you travel, you see like

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other, people's like preferable tastes of things like potato chips.

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And it's very interesting to come from.

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Even if you travel around America, you'll see different flavors of things like that.

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More popularly in different regions, cuz you know, a lot

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of different types of people.

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And there was a couple normally I'm like, eh, doesn't sound good.

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Some kind of weird pickle thing or but there was these they

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looked like lays in America, but they're walkers sizzling, flame.

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Grilled steak just says max really big in the front.

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And I was like, I gotta try those.

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I don't know why the idea of steak flavored chips was

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like somewhat appealing.

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And I like brought 'em home in my bag and like, it didn't sound good

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until like yesterday when we were.

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Taking a break from our sweat shop.

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And I pulled him out and I was like, Ricky, you wanna try these chips?

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And he was like sure.

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And we , I can tell he was like, not super random, but I didn't force him.

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We both tried him.

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And we were just like, oh, that is, it's like, exactly like eating steak in a chip.

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It is shocking and very disturbing.

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And I, the rest of the day, I just kept tasting that.

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I'd be like walking around the shop and be like, oh, steak, that's weird.

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I thought, well, you, when you said that, I thought you were gonna say the

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rest of the day, I just spent in D try to emulate that feeling in an image.

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I have the, I have the chips.

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I can taste them right now.

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Now I wanna know what kind of chips you guys have that I dunno about.

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Oh, I dunno.

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Nothing too crazy.

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But they're, they're not crazy to you.

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The other one was the UK the, the, the British seemed to like what's it called?

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Shrimp cocktail a lot.

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Oh, that source

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Just, yeah, I've seen it on like cooking shows, but they have shrimp

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cocktail flavored chips, pron cocktail.

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And that one I could not do.

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Yeah.

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seafood on my chips now that's gotta be to though.

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Yeah.

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Cool man.

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Should probably head off and I need to jump in with Ricky.

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Probably he's.

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Yeah.

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Turning through more dust boots.

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Awesome.

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Exciting.

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Hope your trip goes well.

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Thanks.

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Can't wait to get my dust boot, my baby pants.

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yep.

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It's on the way it's picked up.

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I, I was literally like half awake, dreaming about it this morning.

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As I woke up

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it's kinda like how I woke up two days ago when I started working on the pedestals

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again, I woke up dreaming of how, like the second I woke up, I was thinking about

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fixturing on how to hold the pedestals.

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And I don't, I don't know where that came from.

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I must have been thinking about a while sleeping.

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Just like, I guess I gotta work on that today.

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dreams, that's like, that's where we solve our fixturing problems in our sleep.

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it's like a deeper version of 3d mental cam.

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yeah.

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Sweet dreams, Justin.

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don't let the mighty bites, but.

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That was

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good.

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Cool,

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bye.

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I thought we're actually hanging up now.

Speaker:

Yeah, I think we, we could have called that before

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let's do

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good.

Speaker:

it's cool.

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Have a good day.

Speaker:

Have a good weekend.

Speaker:

Yeah, I think we're actually hanging up.

Speaker:

Let's do it.

Speaker:

The real one.

Speaker:

Bye.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Parts Department
Parts Department
Justin Brouillette (Portland CNC) and Jem Freeman (Like Butter) discuss CNC machines, their product design and manufacturing businesses, and every kind of tool that they fancy.

Listen for free

About your hosts

Profile picture for Jem Freeman

Jem Freeman

Co-founder and director of Like Butter, a CNC focussed timber design and manufacturing business in their purpose-built solar-powered workshop. Castlemaine, VIC, Australia.
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Justin Brouillette

Founder of Portland CNC & Nack