Episode 25

25 - Failure to Delegate

Are Jem and Justin failing to delegate? PDX CNC Duct Towers and a new Shopify store launches. Both feel gratitude for the podcast and you all.

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Please note: Show notes contains affiliate links.


  • App Talk
  • Sleeping on Shopify Automations 😳
  • Freshhhhhh Desk desires


  • 5hp - servos - BBQ carbide
  • Are we Failing to Delegate?
  • Evolving Products Fast - Mentality? Rip off bandaid of change



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Show Info


HOSTS

Jem Freeman

Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia

Like Butter | Instagram | More Links


Justin Brouillette

Portland, Oregon, USA

PDX CNC | Instagram | More Links

Transcript
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Ooh, well look at that sexy background.

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yeah, babe.

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And the, You got the keyboard.

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Does that work?

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Almost, almost.

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The plan is to have Don Don mapped to some keys behind me here.

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so you just whack it?

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around and, Yep.

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It's amazing.

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Soon you'll be like in a set, in the middle of like a set of keyboards and

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Yeah,

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you.

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Ben always teases me about how I stand with my laptop on the workshop floor.

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He thinks I look like a, a prog rock synth player from the eighties or something.

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It's amazing.

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I take that.

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Yep.

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Nice shirt.

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Thank you.

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I'm going to, my wife's she's been working on a project for two

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years and they're doing a tour today, in the afternoon after this.

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So I was like, I should wear something that's not just a shop t-shirt.

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Nice.

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You're keeping busy over there by the sound of it.

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Yeah, yesterday was fantastic.

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It was a launch of our duct tower

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Quack Quack

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and it also coincided with relaunching the Shopify.

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after we talked last week, I was like, All right, Tuesdays are launch days.

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We have one Tuesday left this month.

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I need to get that out.

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And so basically from then on, I worked constantly on only.

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And got like a pretty bare bone Shopify up, but I think it looks pretty decent

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so far and it's got a lot more features than what we were working with before.

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So it went really well.

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We sent out an email Tuesday morning and had a bunch of orders, but seemed

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the duct tower was fixing a pain point that other people had too.

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So we got a good amount of people interested in that and it's been really.

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Yeah, Cool.

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It was great to see the final version of the Ducktail the Claw,

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and fully featured, I guess.

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I guess I hadn't really seen.

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Much of it other than a few early fusion renders.

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kinda hard to tell.

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It assembled, like in other videos, I find it currently a little tricky

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to make videos about, or like photos because it's like kind of embedded

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into the assembly on its own.

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Yeah,

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gonna say, it looks, is it fairly shop saber specific in terms of how it mounts?

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for now I think, I mean, it's got a pattern of kind of a grid of holes

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in one or offset a little bit.

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So I mean, if you could figure out how to attach that to something else,

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like it's not, I mean, it's unique and then it fits that weird trust

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thing on the side of chop savers.

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Well, but it just, it just mounts to whatever you could get your hands on.

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I personally, I don't think I'd want it on my spindle directly, but,

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it, and, and particularly the shop saves, I don't know, I, I only

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have this machine, but that, cylinder that makes the Z raise faster.

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The Z balancer cylinder is basically just a.

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Tan machine for the duct.

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And I, I feel like that's unique, to shop tapers, but maybe I'm just unaware.

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Yeah, it looks like you've got it worse.

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Like I get my duct tangled a little bit, just over the top of the

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spindle, but it's fairly minor.

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Yeah, sure.

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Sure.

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And typically it's when the machine's doing like really grid, grid like

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big sheets where it's like kind of working progressively up to a

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corner and then working way across

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Yeah.

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thread board, specifically

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Third board.

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Oh, good

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It was funny timing.

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I got it stuck yesterday doing some thread board

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That's

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and then I got your email saying the duck tower was out.

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So it's good timing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think it could be adapted to other machines.

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I mean, I, I.

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Been happy to kind of continue to get requests or interested people

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with other machines or about the, the boot or the, the tower, like, Hey,

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can I make this work on this machine?

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And first of all, it's tough to know.

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So I'm like looking at photos on websites of manufacturers and they like make

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their photos like 300 pixels wide.

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And I'm like, I.

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I would like to find other ways to adapt it.

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Cause it's like you finding out that it worked, like the Dust Boot

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on your machine has been great.

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There's a bunch of people that have that machine, it seems and are

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interested it's not super hard to adapt.

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Some of the features, like the way it mounts to like Lagunas was one, Laguna

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Smart Shop is real popular here, that we're gonna try to figure out how

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to make it work with their actuator.

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Yeah.

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Sweet.

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yeah.

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How are things for you?

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Cool.

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Yeah.

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Good, good, good.

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I think getting to be machinists last week kind broke my Streak of not being

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able to get up and get, get into the workshop early for some playtime.

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Yeah

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so the excitement of being machinists for a few days there has sort of

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reinvigorated me and I'm back into the swing of early mornings and playtime

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and r and d, which has been really nice.

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I, Did I see you actually were machining before this or was

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this a video from yesterday?

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You posted

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Yeah, I got in at four 30 this morning.

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I knew I wanted to cut another thread board panel for this wall behind me,

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and I knew it was about an hour of machine time to do another panel.

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So I was like, Course if I get in four 30.

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So yeah, I managed to just squeeze out another panel,

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but it's still on the machine.

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I literally just turned, turned it off before I walked in here.

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We could just, you could just put your position out on your router.

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You can just put your camera up out there and

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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be a real nice audio.

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Yep.

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I, we chat a little bit about this.

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I have, we have this aluminum job for the router coming up and I asked you

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about it when I was quoting it cause I gotta figure out how to do bread

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milling on some fairly large holes.

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So like two and three eighth diameter into aluminum plate that's half inch thick.

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Never done that on the router, but you, you're telling me it

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was fairly reasonable to do.

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I'm curious when you're doing yours, the thread board, not that defaults too much

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into your secrets, but are you going past the stock into the swell board?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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We throw

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board for it?

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No, we just throw on a, like a three mill sacrificial on top of the spoil board.

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Like literally just a ratty cover sheet that's come on a

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pack of plywood or something.

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And we might get.

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Oh, it depends how it registers on the machine.

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Like I used the same one today that I did yesterday, and it lined up

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perfectly with where the, the over,

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Yeah.

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over drilling, the over boring was.

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So yeah, I think if we're doing a lot of it, we could easily set

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up a sort of more reusable, sort, specific waste board for it.

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But yeah, it's fine.

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We just go past, past the depth that works well.

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Cause you wanna through, you know, you're not stopping

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that thread anywhere in there.

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You're going all the way through.

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Yeah, want it through?

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I mean, the accessories that I'm building out for this pretty much stopped perfectly

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on the back surface of the panel, but I think for, I don't know, just future

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expandability and functionality to be nice if you, if you wanted to, that

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you could thread in from the back if you needed to for some reason.

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For.

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But like, do standoffs, like I'm already discovering that.

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Just starting to mount a few things on this.

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I'm like, Oh, cable management.

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It would be nice to have a gap behind it so I can route cables through and

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Hmm hmm.

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starting to think about that.

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Interesting.

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Yeah.

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Yeah,

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Mm.

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Cause you've got, you've got space behind NA cuz of that

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fancy mounting system, right?

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Yes, it doesn't, it's got a grade.

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Brace thing currently that we've talked about, trying to make a place where

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you could run cables through it, but that kind of defeats its structural

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capability and so it, doesn't really work all that well to run cables behind it.

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You kind of can, but not really.

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So

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Okay.

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yeah, you can beat me there.

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Mm.

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Well, no one likes cables.

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It'd be nice to solve it

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I.

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nicely.

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We did find some.

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One cool idea when we were doing the one over here that's mounted differently,

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it's basically French fleet was we found some, a system of cables,

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wires that have smaller heads that then you can plug into like another

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end so you can fish them through.

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Cuz

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I think our plugs are different, but our, our plug heads are too large

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to go through the knack wall slot.

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So we had found something that kind of worked for that.

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Never used any of it as of last conversation.

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Right.

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It's, who knows when we're coming back to that.

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How?

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How are you feeling?

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A week later?

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I listened to, I listened back to the podcast cause you bailed me out and edited

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it as I was in my fever of finishing our relaunch of Shopify and the product.

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And so I hadn't listened to, I hadn't edited it and I was thinking

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about it and I still agree.

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In the moment, it didn't come as too big of a shock.

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Cause I think I was already thinking about some of that too.

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And I do have one thing I would change about your business as well.

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It's not dramatic, but it kind of coincided with me discovering

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a few things in Shopify that I found really potentially powerful.

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And just kind of thinking about how you've described.

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Your minimal use of email marketing in the past, and I feel like

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there's a lot of power there.

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You're seeing really good results that if you make it a little more

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regular and something that you could put some kind of other content in,

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like feel like you guys create some interesting things that it could be

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more than just marketing and you could also have the marketing built into it.

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As well that it's more of like newslettery type thing.

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Cause I think the story of like butter is more than just the products

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for a decent amount of people.

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Or that you, you also want it to be that.

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I think you want it to be about, you know, the eco consciousness

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and kind of a community identity and those kind of things that can

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start to feed their way into that.

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That just basically the, the original part of that was, You should push your edms

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more, you know, have, have once a week or once every two weeks, whatever you feel

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comfortable with, but make it more regular then you've had previously, I think you're

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starting to do that already though, right?

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Yeah.

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No, that's cool.

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Thank you.

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That's good timing cuz I am starting to think about it.

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I mean, this year was prob, I think the first time we ever sent an edm.

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Yeah.

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We'd never had been collecting emails.

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And then on Jay and Will's sort of recommendation, we started

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collecting them via Shopify.

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People could opt in.

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And so we've got, you know, modest subscriber base now.

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And I didn't, Yeah, we dabbled like Kent, who works here on the

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floor is like a really good writer.

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Oh, nice.

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and you know, he is come from academia and we'll, we'll be losing him

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and he'll be returning to academia soon, but, which will be sad.

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we had a period there where he was writing little blog articles and

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stuff, and then we're using the blog content as sort of syncing out through

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into our little newsletter thing as

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Not nice.

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we fell out of the rhythm of that when his schedule changed a little bit, but

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I'd like to bring that content back.

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And also just, I didn't really understand how the EDM was gonna

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sort of function until we came across the idea of that it has to be like,

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it has to be some unique offering.

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It can't just be a duplication of what's on our website or

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Yeah, exactly.

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has to sort of give those people something sort of, you know, exclusive or more that

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they're not gonna get somewhere else.

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Cause otherwise, why would they stay getting spammed by us every

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to get sales is usually the only, the only thing, or I, I like to

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think of it in a certain sense too, of like the, the people that sign up for that

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kind of thing are likely just looking for what we may come out with new, whether

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just from whatever version of NAC or cnc.

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And honestly, I, for a long time with na, it was like, I just basically.

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Promote the same products through emails all the time.

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And I'm sure you know, like if you don't want a calendar, it's about

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all I was talking for years cuz I just like didn't have anything new.

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And so that, that has never really grown.

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And yeah, I'm not doing a great job.

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I'm not, I'm saying these things and not necessarily doing these things myself.

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I say it because you have a lot of people that can help you with it.

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You know, in terms of like making that be a big thing and

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you're just at a different place.

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You can now spread net marketing into a different world.

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So on that, on the wings of that, the other thing I found, which I'm sure some

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of you that use Shopify, like yeah, duh.

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But I just had never explored it.

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The first thing I did was turn on the abandoned email marketing.

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Abandoned email automation, which there was a, a basic version of that and

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I'd never gotten into the automations.

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I feel like when I first explored it, it was like really janky and didn't work or

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something, or it wasn't what I expected it to be, but I just tried it today

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and that thing is amazingly powerful.

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Like,

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Mm.

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it's like, it's like if Grasshopper Zier and like Air Table Automation

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had a baby for just shop.

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Like you can do like the one example that blew my mind, I was telling Ricky

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about, you can have a trigger, right?

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So something like the person goes to the website, looks at a certain

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product on your Shopify, then you can do like if then statements.

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So they leave the site, the next time they come back to your site, you can redirect

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a URL that they land on to something else,

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Mm, Fancy.

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I mean it.

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Somewhat like Bo and like Dark Patterny.

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But I was just thinking like, well maybe if you wanted to like AB test, like well,

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that sales pitch for this product didn't work, the next time you have a duplicate

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product for some reason that has a video higher up on the page that, you know,

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maybe they'll watch or I don't know, you have a different type of landing page.

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That's just one example, but it's just super powerful.

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You can lead 'em through like email automations of different

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things or tag their account or.

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Mark it to somebody that has one product already and you wanna like, like they

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bought something and then say a week later you can send them an email and

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say, Hey, you got your kid parts.

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Is there anything you would like to add onto that?

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You know, like, you've got it, it's set up now.

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Anyway.

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Yeah, so much complexity there you could get into, I had that sense

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yesterday of like, my day ended up being mostly in the sort of email

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marketing, social media space.

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And I was like, Wow, this could really be a full time job.

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. Like, I could spend a week doing this.

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I don't want to do that.

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But I can see how it could become that very

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Mm-hmm.

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If you really wanted to.

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Get into all those details.

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Remarketing and stuff.

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But what is, what is powerful about that?

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Just from that one thought is you spend a little bit of time, just like our air

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table automations, like the, the value is once it's set up, some of these things,

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like especially if you could make some of them more dynamic, like buy a product in

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this category, remarket in this category.

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You know, in a, in six months or, you know, whatever your plan is, it's like

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you're kind of duplicating your effort for every time somebody makes a purchase

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that, or whatever action you wanna repeat.

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Yeah, totally.

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No.

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I was also thinking, remember our talk about how to send

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manuals to people digitally.

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mm.

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could easily use the automation.

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I don't know how you feed in the manual necessarily.

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Cool.

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drop in somehow, maybe from like a meta field.

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We're getting a little deep here for most people, I'm sure.

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I'll stop after this.

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But you could drop into like a meta field or the product, you know, like a day

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after or on fulfillment for that product.

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And it would send an email with that link to that PDF or whatever you wanted it to

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be.

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Yeah, that'd be cool.

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Yeah.

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We're starting to build out all our manuals as webpages

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Oh yeah, yeah.

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Jay's recommendation that they need to be more mobile friendly.

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You just click on a link and then it loads up as something you can easily sort of

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scan through the steps on your mobile.

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Which is a great point.

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Cause previously we had FID lead PDFs, which were hard to read and

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Yeah,

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on, on mobile well.

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for sure.

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Anyway, that was my rant on emails and automation.

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This week in web.

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This weekend Web.

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Hmm.

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Thanks.

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That's going on.

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Sounds like you had a great day in sales yesterday.

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Yeah, it uh, like I said, you know, like I had another, Smaller

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version of the emotional, we made it feeling of just like,

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Nice.

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just, you know, different because it was so all at once and you know,

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for people to do retail all the time, this wasn't a huge day in the

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scheme of things for most people.

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But coming from our intent last October to transition to doing this kind of stuff,

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it felt like Ricky had designed most of the duck tower and I helped kind of, Do

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a few detailing and, and refining from a plywood beast to something that was like

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we could have sent out for fabrication.

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And he's super stoked that something he helped design is now selling so

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well and people are excited cuz like we discussed, it's like he came from using

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Illustrator in DXs and now he's making parametric models that are product.

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So and so we're both super excited, just kind of chatted about potentials.

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Watch sales happens, like the best feeling when we always turn.

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I always turn my phone on, so it like rings out the, the

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cash register noise and it's

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Yeah.

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satisfying.

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There's nothing really like that feeling.

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So I appreciate everybody that ordered something and we're stoked and everything

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ready to start sending those out And

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Awesome.

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Hmm.

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Excellent.

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Yeah, we've had a decent run in sales this month too.

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Like it's, it's still below our target, but.

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Good momentum.

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I feel like something's starting to pick up a little bit, which is cool.

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for sure.

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Not sure what I know.

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We've been putting a bit more spend into Google ads lately,

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but yeah, something's working.

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decent conversion on those, you know,

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Not bad.

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Not amazing.

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Not amazing, but

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I think any conversion is probably good,

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honestly,

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Yeah, it's, it, It's meeting our, currently this week, I think it's

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meeting our target, whatever it's called, cost of acquisition, blah, blah.

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Yeah.

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I dunno what that's called.

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That's good.

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Yeah, I, was listening back.

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It's funny mention listening back to the podcast.

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I often listen back to it whether I've edited or not.

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I reckon I, I listen to it at least once during editing obviously.

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And then once again, when it comes out

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and I find it really valuable to a, remember what I've said or what

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we've talked about, whether that's like, Oh yeah, we talked about that.

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I need to look at that, or, you know, something I might not

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have added to my to-do list.

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also just holding myself to account of like, Yeah, I said I was going to

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do that, but I find this platform, what we're doing quite a valuable

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way of digesting information for me.

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I'm

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Yeah.

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Same.

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I'm not someone who sort of talks about what they're doing naturally.

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Like I've always been quite closed.

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My creative process has always been like, just leave me alone

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and I'll show you when I'm done.

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So

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wife.

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Quite . It's been really valuable for me just having to talk about stuff

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for an hour a week and then have an opportunity to digest that again.

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But although I, I mentioned that was cuz I was listening back and you are, talk

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about the five horsepower spindle and it not being able to push bigger tools.

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Does that mean you are not running.

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That surprised me cuz I thought we had the same spindle and we are running some

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huge tooling at high feed rates on ours

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I would say that's related to the material you're cutting.

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We can cut 800 inches a minute, which again, I don't know how to translate that.

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20,320 millimeters per minute

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I bought a half inch compression cutter when I first bought the machine.

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Thought I could cut inch thick Baltic birch and just buried

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it and it just went nowhere.

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Cause like I got those suggestions from whoever feed rates.

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Baltic, you know, is definitely one of the harder, like denser things.

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I think we cut commonly.

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And so that is one of the things that drives that, the

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thickness of the material.

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And then like solid woods, if it's

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Oh, absolutely.

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too much anytime you try and slot, right?

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It's just like such a heavy load.

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But I mean, we put a three quarter inch rougher on that thing and just

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tear through, you know, in a hem operation, not, you know, not slotting.

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Sliding.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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But that's so often what you're doing right on a route is just slotting

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Slotting all day.

Speaker:

Language, Jem.

Speaker:

But yeah, we do

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Interesting.

Speaker:

at times just not slotting and the vacuum thing, like I said before, we, we don't

Speaker:

expose a ton of vacuum intentionally.

Speaker:

That makes sense.

Speaker:

And the other question I had about the Shop Saver was, is

Speaker:

it survey driven or step is,

Speaker:

I dunno,

Speaker:

Oh, come on.

Speaker:

which one forgets their location.

Speaker:

Step is the old.

Speaker:

We must have servos then.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Cool.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I never figured it's location.

Speaker:

Well the servos don't, but you have to home it to switches

Speaker:

Yeah, you still have to home it, but yeah.

Speaker:

Cool.

Speaker:

Good.

Speaker:

Dean?

Speaker:

No, I was just wondering cause your RPM on that eight mil

Speaker:

tool is quite high in my book.

Speaker:

I feel like if you ran that high rpm, that tool on a step of machine that

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couldn't decelerate and accelerate very quickly, you'd just get burn

Speaker:

marks in the corners of sharp corners.

Speaker:

But if you've got SVOs, then it's gonna be able to crack around those small

Speaker:

Pretty good on It's pretty capable in that way.

Speaker:

Oh, I wanna go back to the thing.

Speaker:

I, I find this very valuable too.

Speaker:

And it, and whenever somebody says something about, you know,

Speaker:

Oh, I appreciated this in like a.

Speaker:

Instagram comment or something, appreciate listening to the show

Speaker:

and I'm always like, Yeah, I'm glad somebody else appreciates it as well.

Speaker:

Because for me it's basically like therapy every week.

Speaker:

Like I

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

with a new friend Gem.

Speaker:

We found on Instagram and we, you know, seemingly challenge each other decently

Speaker:

well, that I find that interesting and I, maybe it's narcissistic, but I also

Speaker:

really enjoy listening back to it after just edited like and I usually enjoy.

Speaker:

I mean, it's mostly what you're saying.

Speaker:

I'm not sitting there like laughing at all my own jokes.

Speaker:

, right?

Speaker:

Like, that's weird . I don't think I am anyway, but I usually enjoy listening

Speaker:

to it again as like a product of I don't know, something I wish existed,

Speaker:

I guess is this kind of content.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

we are challenged too.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

Likewise.

Speaker:

Yeah, it's good.

Speaker:

that note we've been struggling to as the newness wore off of making

Speaker:

the podcast, I think our interest in editing has, has started to dwindle.

Speaker:

And I had this thought, Are we failing to delegate editing the podcast

Speaker:

I did think about that too this

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way?

Speaker:

Whether it's somebody that works for us or somebody that we hire, like, you know,

Speaker:

as a, I was Googling like, how much does it cost it at a podcast, I didn't find

Speaker:

any great answers, but it's not rocket science and it takes a couple hours.

Speaker:

And so while we don't make anything directly from the

Speaker:

podcast, it's like it is valuable.

Speaker:

I think for us, I was thinking about it in the sense of therapy and how much therapy

Speaker:

costs a month, and I was like, what if we.

Speaker:

Collectively $400 a month for therapy, like as a podcast editing service.

Speaker:

Like that's not that bad.

Speaker:

Gold.

Speaker:

I love it.

Speaker:

Yeah, it is.

Speaker:

It is quite involved.

Speaker:

And that's, you know, it can feel like quite a chore to know that

Speaker:

you have to get through that edit.

Speaker:

Cause I, I feel like I'm really slow.

Speaker:

Like if I'm, if I'm trying to make it fun and like insert a few audio clips here and

Speaker:

there, I feel like my ratio is about three or four hours for every hour of complete.

Speaker:

Tape as they call it.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

which, yeah, it's quite, it's a big chunk of the week when you add it up.

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Cause I've been, I've been using a new time tracking app where I.

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Oh, it's desktop based.

Speaker:

Now that I have an office job I can track on my desktop and so it gives

Speaker:

me a report the end of the week.

Speaker:

And it's been really interesting seeing how I spend my time and like

Speaker:

I've got one category that's called Unfocused faf, and it's just all the

Speaker:

times that I've been aware that I've just been sitting there for 45 minutes,

Speaker:

kind of bouncing between Chrome tabs and not really focusing on anything.

Speaker:

That's what you call our podcast.

Speaker:

I'm disappointed.

Speaker:

No, no, the podcast goes in a different category, but it's been interesting

Speaker:

getting that report at the end of the week and going, Yeah, cool.

Speaker:

It is, it is a decent chunk.

Speaker:

Like, but if I've been on, in, in the edit, like you've, for the

Speaker:

record, you've carried most of the editing late up until this point.

Speaker:

I've done a few here and there, but yeah, it's can be a chore

Speaker:

It can.

Speaker:

I was like really into, I still am.

Speaker:

Like I still enjoy, I enjoy talking.

Speaker:

I do enjoy producing it to some degree, but being a two person shop and trying

Speaker:

to also live my life with my wife, which is already strained time wise I was

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just having this thought as I couldn't find time to edit and then you save

Speaker:

me at the end there this week that I.

Speaker:

Why exactly aren't we?

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Like finding a way to have somebody edit this, you know, like

Speaker:

this, You know?

Speaker:

I think we're gaining enough collectively out of it that it makes sense though.

Speaker:

Anyway, Enough talking about that, I just was more thinking about the idea

Speaker:

of delegation and how even in this one thing that we're collectively not

Speaker:

doing that properly, really, it seemed,

Speaker:

mm.

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anyway.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

How do you go with delegation in general?

Speaker:

I mean, you've just got Ricky,

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poorly.

Speaker:

And usually I'm like, I've just now started trying to faster and

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faster begin the first steps of whatever that thing is to delegate

Speaker:

rather than like overthinking it.

Speaker:

Like, for the longest time I never had anybody help deal with shipping products

Speaker:

because it felt hard to teach like how Ship Station worked or how Shopify worked.

Speaker:

It was just like, well, if you have this thing, it has to go in this box.

Speaker:

And it was just like always seemed like, Well, I could just ship him.

Speaker:

That's easier.

Speaker:

And now I'm like I bring him in, like show him these steps and he is now

Speaker:

like super stoked to like pack up, you know, boxes and, and get him ready.

Speaker:

And he's starting to learn more of those steps.

Speaker:

But trying to do it more.

Speaker:

Biting off chunks rather than like thinking of it, like everything

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has to be translated as one set of

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tasks.

Speaker:

It's helped me a little bit.

Speaker:

I mean, you are, you seem very good at putting stuff into

Speaker:

your fresh desk system too.

Speaker:

Try,

Speaker:

I get that impression like you have that set up and you're putting

Speaker:

info into it, which is cool.

Speaker:

I would judge, I think is such a big part of effective delegation

Speaker:

is having it written down,

Speaker:

It just definitely helped.

Speaker:

It's

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having a process.

Speaker:

that once you, you've talked about that too, about like your responsibilities or

Speaker:

task sets that once you have a system, for me anyway, whatever, it has to be

Speaker:

easy to create an edit or I won't do it.

Speaker:

Like if I have to open, I had to sit down at a typewriter.

Speaker:

Never gonna happen, but like, sometimes I'll just be like bored.

Speaker:

Like I was adding product listings on my phone over the weekend

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when I was doing something else.

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We like waiting for something and I was like, Well, I'm gonna write

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up the duck tower description.

Speaker:

Like it has to be that kind of simplicity to you know, if I'm in the middle

Speaker:

room and I need to add or look up or edit one of the articles on fresh test

Speaker:

that's internal, like it's gotta be as easy as just opening it up and.

Speaker:

Typing not something else, I guess.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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It's an area where you want zero friction to access, edit, add new stuff.

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Like we, that's, that's kind of my brief to Jay at the moment is like,

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Because currently all of that for us is in air table and it's just big slabs

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of text in fields, which is hard to

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It is.

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sometimes, slow to find.

Speaker:

And so, yeah, really attracted to this Fresh desk idea.

Speaker:

But the example is you, for me, is, you know, someone on the floor

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packing up a new product the first time we've bundled that product and

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put it in a new, it's new custom cart.

Speaker:

It's like, Cool.

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Just take a photo of how you've packed it and then the next

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person can reference that photo.

Speaker:

But pr up until this point, we haven't had a sort of a spot for that photo to go.

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Like typically it

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what I was

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wondering.

Speaker:

Slack channel at the moment and people might see it, but then trying to

Speaker:

find that photo in a few weeks time or a month's time is like, Nah, go

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No.

Speaker:

And especially now that like we don't pay for slack, so it's

Speaker:

like 90 days and it's gone.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So now I had that exact thought as we're building more product things

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like we have an air table for them.

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So I was thinking that an air table could have like fulfillment

Speaker:

details or packaging details.

Speaker:

But then we also use Ship Station, which has products in it.

Speaker:

And I was just trying to think of like, what's the easiest, like Saunders on

Speaker:

his latest shop tour is showing how they have now taken photos and like

Speaker:

laminated them next to things that are like maintenance items around their mill.

Speaker:

And I was thinking that might be the right way.

Speaker:

Like, but you know, if you have as many products as you do, like how

Speaker:

do you have all these photo, You have a photo wall of what they,

Speaker:

you know, all the packaging looks like that doesn't work.

Speaker:

So,

Speaker:

to watch that new shop tour.

Speaker:

Maybe it's just air table if you're already keeping, it's like I wouldn't want

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the product stuff to be in two places.

Speaker:

So if you're keeping all your product stuff in one place, I would probably

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just, I'm just thinking out loud.

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Probably add my photo of the fulfillment information there, I

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guess, or whatever that stuff is,

Speaker:

Yeah, in the

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in the box.

Speaker:

I've, always been really attracted to the idea of having, you know,

Speaker:

screens in the workshop for that reason, cuz, you know, digital data

Speaker:

stays more up to date than printouts.

Speaker:

Yes.

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Yes.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

And you know, having big, beautiful screens or tablets everywhere.

Speaker:

has been attractive for that reason.

Speaker:

So someone can just be there at the dispatch station and they just go,

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Ooh, touch the product on the board.

Speaker:

And it brings up the required information.

Speaker:

It's how the McDonald's model of furniture dispatch, but I've never quite.

Speaker:

Worked out a good workflow of implementing that technology.

Speaker:

Really tend to have couple of PCs set up around the workshop.

Speaker:

But then, you know, they're just, again, that moment of

Speaker:

friction, like it's gone to sleep.

Speaker:

Wake it up, wake it up.

Speaker:

Oh, it's not in the right, it's not in the right air table screen.

Speaker:

It's like, Oh, just walk away.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And that, and that leads me to like the, well, a photo's pretty useful,

Speaker:

you know, like a printout that

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Mm.

Speaker:

is there.

Speaker:

But you know, we only have so many products that would work for now.

Speaker:

But but I have literally done the same thing where like we were starting to

Speaker:

pack boxes of dust boots and Ricky, I think it was after Ricky had left.

Speaker:

And I was gonna close him up and I was like, Well, how am I gonna show

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Ricky this, you know, tomorrow?

Speaker:

And so I took a photo, but then like, I think it's just sitting on my phone.

Speaker:

I never did anything with it, you know, I might have put it on Slack, but Yeah, it's

Speaker:

hard to, it's like what makes that simple?

Speaker:

And I'm sure we'll have people say you should use bubble or app sheets.

Speaker:

You know, like, but then again, it's like, I don't really like

Speaker:

having it just be on a phone either.

Speaker:

So it is nice to have some type of other computer.

Speaker:

Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker:

Tricky.

Speaker:

Telepathic chips in our head.

Speaker:

Justin, that's the answer to

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

, R F I D.

Speaker:

Wave your hand.

Speaker:

Hi Gem.

Speaker:

Your packing boxes today.

Speaker:

Hello Justin.

Speaker:

The um, We had this

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the bandage of change.

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Yeah, we had this discussion again that you and I have had, but Ricky

Speaker:

and I were having it of realizing we need, we want to change something

Speaker:

about the Dust boot assembly.

Speaker:

Aha.

Speaker:

And once you start, and our intention has always been the the parts should be a

Speaker:

kit of things, a kit of parts you might.

Speaker:

But for dust boots that you can change the lower half into other pieces,

Speaker:

spacers, longer brushes, thicker plates, but in that sense, you need everything

Speaker:

to stay the same on the beginning and the later half that you provide.

Speaker:

So we've kind, we spent a lot of time thinking about that ahead of time

Speaker:

so that it wouldn't need to change.

Speaker:

Cool.

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Arrangement, but then we realized where we put, we would like the

Speaker:

pins, the alignment pins to be on the top plate and not the bottom plate,

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

minor detail, but we ended up ordering some adapter pins because the size would

Speaker:

be different from one to the other, so that we can retroactively provide

Speaker:

if we offer new brushes in the future way that has the existing version.

Speaker:

And modify it to put these pins in to flip it to the top.

Speaker:

Nice.

Speaker:

want to start putting in no pins in the lower portions.

Speaker:

It just makes a lot more sense.

Speaker:

It's less pins, it's less all the stuff.

Speaker:

But we were just kind of like a little app of BL ticket first.

Speaker:

Like, God, did we just mess up?

Speaker:

And all these people have, we gotta like carry all these, you know, a second

Speaker:

set of brushes always, because all the original people have that one version.

Speaker:

And I'm glad we figured that out.

Speaker:

But it did bring back this same idea of like, I think your friend said to you,

Speaker:

the sooner you change it, the less, less of that you have to deal with.

Speaker:

And it's so hard to just like bite that bullet and do it, you know?

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

Cuz it feels like there should be some smart design solution to it.

Speaker:

Like you wanna sort of labor over it cuz you can solve it.

Speaker:

I can make this work.

Speaker:

And maybe you can, and it sounds like you have with those adapters, which is cool.

Speaker:

I hope it does work.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I think it has to be a balance of not just ripping off the bandaid of change.

Speaker:

It sounds like a Bill Bailey song immediately, but actually, you

Speaker:

know, doing the work, putting in that design effort to try and

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

cross compatibility as good as you can.

Speaker:

But then, yeah, at some point you just gotta rip off that plaster.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So on that topic, how has your evolution of kid parts gone?

Speaker:

Cause that was your original concern we were talking about, right?

Speaker:

Like how has it gone with new customers or old customers that want new stuff?

Speaker:

Like how has that all happened for you?

Speaker:

It's been very smooth and very little drama.

Speaker:

Pretty much all sales just immediately rolled into the new version.

Speaker:

Convenient.

Speaker:

we did a pretty crappy job of communicating in the rush

Speaker:

of launching version two.

Speaker:

We did a pretty crappy job of communicating the differences,

Speaker:

and I reckon anecdotally that led to a bit of a sales drop off.

Speaker:

I think we created some confusion there, or just a potential lack of

Speaker:

clarity which would not have helped with our conversion rates, but,

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

same time, it hasn't really been an issue.

Speaker:

We've sold a few V one s and we're just promoting our remaining stock

Speaker:

of V one now, cuz we realized we keep running out of Dow.

Speaker:

Our supplier can't keep up with the, like, stock of that dow we use for Kitter parts.

Speaker:

And so at the moment we have no Dow stock, so we can't make any

Speaker:

new components for any kid parts.

Speaker:

And then we realized we've got all this V one stock on the shelf still

Speaker:

beautifully wrapped up, ready to go.

Speaker:

So we're doing a little push at the moment to say like, Hey, discount,

Speaker:

let's, let's get this off our shelves.

Speaker:

yeah, just trying to communicate that we will continue to service V1 customers

Speaker:

and make them parts in down the track if they ever wanna expand their sets.

Speaker:

Kind of, I don't know, I don't have great deal of clarity around

Speaker:

when the sunset clause is on that.

Speaker:

And

Speaker:

so the solution then is you do have to have separate.

Speaker:

Skews for each version and, and there's not really a way to adapt it.

Speaker:

It could be adapted, but then that adds just another level of

Speaker:

complexity, which I think would just be confusing as well for customers.

Speaker:

For us, for kid parts, like you could the it, if someone has a V one and they wanna

Speaker:

adapt it to a v2, I can do that Infusion or Rhino, I can work it out and make

Speaker:

customed our links and give them a sort of a bespoke set to achieve that solution.

Speaker:

But from a customer facing point of view, without some call like configurator app.

Speaker:

Hm mm-hmm.

Speaker:

the difference between the two versions.

Speaker:

It's just too complex, I think.

Speaker:

So we're just, we'll try and phase out, v1, get it offline, and

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

when those questions come out down the track, it should, it's, Yeah, I don't

Speaker:

think there'll be that many of them.

Speaker:

And when they do come up, it'll be easy enough to satisfy those customers.

Speaker:

So.

Speaker:

Yeah, interesting.

Speaker:

I mean, frankly, not to stress you out, that would stress me out like that.

Speaker:

I think I really struggle with that.

Speaker:

And it leads me to, to spend more time upfront not putting a product out

Speaker:

because I'm concerned that stuff like this might happen and that it's not great.

Speaker:

You know it's not something you can, you can't solve all the problems up front and

Speaker:

I don't think you're doing anything wrong.

Speaker:

I'm not saying that.

Speaker:

I just, I would struggle with that situation.

Speaker:

Well, I think in your work, what you're talking about, you're talking about

Speaker:

a, a tool consumable, like a brush

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Luckily,

Speaker:

is a consumable component.

Speaker:

Component.

Speaker:

A, a set of shelves is not a consumable.

Speaker:

So I anecdotally, again, and like most people don't come

Speaker:

back for more parts anyway.

Speaker:

Sure.

Speaker:

gonna be a very small proportion of customers where it might be an issue,

Speaker:

whereas you are like, theoretically, every Dust boot customer at some

Speaker:

point is gonna want another brush.

Speaker:

Yeah, I know.

Speaker:

I, Yeah.

Speaker:

It's the fun part about making products, right?

Speaker:

It is.

Speaker:

When,

Speaker:

I did notice those pins on our.

Speaker:

Dust the other day, I didn't realize they were just press

Speaker:

fit and they kind of slide,

Speaker:

how did it,

Speaker:

is cool.

Speaker:

They, I dunno if they'd moved or what, but they weren't protruding very fast.

Speaker:

I just poked them out a little bit more.

Speaker:

Here's the other, per it being in the top plate, is they can be into

Speaker:

a blind hole, which will stop their.

Speaker:

Versus now we're cutting them through that bottom plate.

Speaker:

So it's a bit of a perk.

Speaker:

Um,

Speaker:

Nice.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

Cool.

Speaker:

Oh, oh, we got, I think now I'm starting to lose track of time.

Speaker:

I didn't talk about No.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

So we had got, we had, I'd ordered the Pearson pallets and they.

Speaker:

And last Friday, and I put 'em together and made a little video and I was

Speaker:

very impressed with how easy it was to fit all the air fittings together.

Speaker:

Like it's like all in a little bag.

Speaker:

There's only one install sheet and I haven't gotten to putting it on

Speaker:

the mill yet because I needed to just spend an afternoon doing that.

Speaker:

But I put it together on our work bench and it was just like so satisfying

Speaker:

that all you could do is just plug it into your normal airline, push to push

Speaker:

to connect all these little quarter inch lines, and then it just works.

Speaker:

Like you drop on the plate, you push the thing and it goes,

Speaker:

sucks down and satisfying.

Speaker:

that'll, become your main work holding on the mill.

Speaker:

I think so, yeah.

Speaker:

And what, what were you saying about the vice?

Speaker:

Will you have a vice on a pallet or,

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's gonna look, it's gonna look ridiculous, but according

Speaker:

to Jay, it works fine.

Speaker:

That's so cool.

Speaker:

I

Speaker:

know, right?

Speaker:

It's gonna be it'll be very different.

Speaker:

Like I think it may affect tool setting, potentially with how the

Speaker:

spindle can come down, which is scary.

Speaker:

But we'll find out.

Speaker:

The

Speaker:

table's just not very big.

Speaker:

Sure.

Speaker:

But Mills have lots of Zed height, right?

Speaker:

do.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But the spindle, like if you have a short tool and you need to bring it

Speaker:

all the way down to the table, which leads me to think maybe I'll just put

Speaker:

someday put that tool setter on a riser.

Speaker:

Cause it's not like we need like

Speaker:

a 20 inch long

Speaker:

tool.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

If you need to measure a tool

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Which,

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

About, I mean, once we get into a production sense, hopefully that's not

Speaker:

often, but basically every time I change jobs, change, whatever I'm trying to run

Speaker:

on it, I'm setting up at least two or three tools and measuring 'em that way.

Speaker:

So,

Speaker:

Cool.

Speaker:

That's exciting.

Speaker:

Can't wait to see that up and

Speaker:

running.

Speaker:

Sounds like you need some dedicated time off in the mill room.

Speaker:

I do.

Speaker:

I know.

Speaker:

Well, I mean, frankly, what is great about having good sales days

Speaker:

of products is it does feel like it creates space for for me to be able

Speaker:

to not think, Oh crap, we need money.

Speaker:

You know, like it, when we sell things, I don't have to go sell things.

Speaker:

So I'm hoping that that happens here this week and next week that I'm

Speaker:

getting into making those pallets that actually hold specifically the bases.

Speaker:

Cuz currently I can make, well as soon as I take it off, everything

Speaker:

will have to go onto this thing.

Speaker:

So that'll be a different scenario.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Cool.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

you've got two pallets to start.

Speaker:

Three.

Speaker:

And I ordered more material to make our own, which is kind of cool.

Speaker:

They offer these hardware kits.

Speaker:

I just have to figure out how to thread mill with their hardware.

Speaker:

And honestly, it looks like making the pallets are super

Speaker:

easy other than thread milling.

Speaker:

You just have to be able to face or cut a little five deep pocket

Speaker:

where the ground inserts are on it.

Speaker:

So it sits.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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But as they come, I was a little surprised, but I'm also needed some of

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this, that from Pearson, it just has, they don't touch any of the rest of

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the pallets not faced or cleaned up.

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They just mill those flats and the couple indexing things and the two locking rings

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and, and just give 'em to you like that.

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So it's just basically we're all aluminum.

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That's great.

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Super cool.

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How's your giant job?

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Have you started that yet?

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Gosh, no.

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Hmm?

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We're currently charging them for storage

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Yeah.

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of the 350 sheets of plywood that have been on our floor for

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six weeks, more seven weeks.

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Which is just kind of like, like, Nice, I suppose.

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But it's probably more of a, This is a huge problem.

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yeah, it's, it's meant our steel department's been department.

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Our steel corner of the workshop has been completely packed up for that whole time.

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yeah.

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So we haven't been able to do any steel projects and.

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Yeah, it's just a huge amount of stock just sitting there waiting.

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Design

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files

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still.

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Sorry.

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like design held up?

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Yep.

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I think they've got engineering waiting for engineering approval now

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Let see.

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the stuff they've designed.

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So it's frustrating, but not much we can do at this stage.

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We've had a few, like there's a lot of jobs.

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Anything that's like.

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Building construction related.

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We've seen massive delays here with projects, and so we've got,

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you know, more work in our system than we've ever had before.

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But at the same time, a lot of it is either on hold or

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delayed or being pushed out.

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So it's been a little bit tricky to manage workflow.

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We're building some new Gantt charts and air table at the moment to try and

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help manage, like, cool, we've got.

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This much work, When is it actually gonna fall?

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Let's, you know, make sure that it's not all gonna fall in October.

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Cuz then we'll be staffed.

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So like we have to actually be a bit more careful and schedule it out.

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So that's been good.

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Building out that functionality.

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Um,

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had to do that yet really very deeply, but that was a perk.

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I remember switching over to their table for all that kind of stuff,

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but we never have really had to.

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I can imagine that it's stressful.

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Who deals with that usually Sarah?

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That sort of workflow management.

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It's Jay and Ben at the moment.

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And, but we're excited cuz I think it will lead to smoother production, but

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it's also gonna be good from a sales perspective of being able to look

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at that G chart and going, Oh yeah, we could slot your job in next week.

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You know, maybe close, close out some.

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Sort of quicker turnaround jobs as

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well, rather than always just saying, Oh my God, we're so

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busy, we're not gonna be able

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six weeks.

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Yeah,

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It's like, Actually no, we've got space.

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So, yeah.

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That's exciting.

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That'd be good.

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yeah.

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Definit.

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Always excited about a Gantt chart.

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We almost named our second child Gantt.

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I.

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That's amazing.

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It was on the list.

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Justin.

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It was on the list.

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Yeah.

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Nice.

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Well to reduce our editing load, you know, one thing we could

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now.

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is just not waffle on for

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Yeah, for sure.

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Agreed.

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Keep it tight.

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Mm-hmm.

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I'm always amazed listening to other people's content that

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sounds completely unedited.

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I'm like, How do your people do it?

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How do you talk concisely without leaving Huge pauses.

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Yeah.

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Or us, hundreds and hundreds of u's and ums we put

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in and take out.

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You're welcome.

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yep.

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Yeah, off we go.

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I guess so someone's making coffee out there?

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Is that an, is that an espresso

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No, ma, master dripper.

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ma master?

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Now I feel like this

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Oh yeah.

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That's how I drink eight cups a day.

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Oh baby.

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That's nice looking.

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Yeah.

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till next week.

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Happy day.

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See you on Slack.

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But

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So, yeah, like

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I like this.

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It's like we're in a coffee shop now.

Speaker:

I

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Parts Department
Parts Department
Justin Brouillette (Portland CNC) and Jem Freeman (Like Butter) discuss CNC machines, their product design and manufacturing businesses, and every kind of tool that they fancy.

Listen for free

About your hosts

Profile picture for Jem Freeman

Jem Freeman

Co-founder and director of Like Butter, a CNC focussed timber design and manufacturing business in their purpose-built solar-powered workshop. Castlemaine, VIC, Australia.
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Justin Brouillette

Founder of Portland CNC & Nack