Episode 29

29 - YCM Crash from a Fusion 360 Bug

Fusion 360 causes a massive YCM crash. New – Support the Show on Patreon to get the Secret Show & more.

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YCM Mill Crash from Fusion 360 Bug (Safe Start misnomer)

  • All Marketers are Liars - the title of which is a lie.
  • Waste Expo
  • Blown Deadlines
  • Packaging/Shipping included in COGS
  • LB's Costing / Pricing with Airpower to Shopify 🤤


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Show Info


HOSTS

Jem Freeman

Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia

Like Butter | Instagram | More Links


Justin Brouillette

Portland, Oregon, USA

PDX CNC | Instagram | More Links

Transcript
Speaker:

What's that?

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Oh, are you talking to Alexa, right?

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Yep, yep.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Be good morning.

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Oh, Justin, I wish I could play summits.

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God be satisfying.

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That's sexy.

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I don't see

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did you press the.

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Fuck, I didn't now.

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Now it's recording somehow.

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Okay.

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Do it again.

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Whew.

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it is recording.

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It's just the video that doesn't record.

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Breathe it out.

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3, 2, 1.

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Sometimes I just miss my own hands.

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I think like I used to be coordinated and play sports and now like, yeah,

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Those floppy, cat hands.

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it's the CAD hands.

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It's my cat hands CAD cap.

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Do you send your, your significant other friends, like all CAD cap text?

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shouting, CAD speak?

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CAD caps.

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Yep.

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What's.

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Um, I was lucky person to find a bug in the Fanic post that crashed the YC m y.

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Hm.

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Rapid plunge, Rapid plunge, straight Z pull.

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Verizon, A three eight s carbide tool straight into the palette.

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I No, Which not your beautiful, shiny palette, I hope.

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Not the big one, but a new one that I was making for the risers.

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Yeah, I'll bugger.

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digging through so far.

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I.

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Nothing is wrong.

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I have not machined anything.

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The spindle, as far as I can tell, without like more sophisticated

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tools of like a Ballbar test or something, I don't even know.

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I've never had to do this before, but like the run out on the

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tapers fine tools run out fine.

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It seems to be.

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Decently XY oriented to the table and like my pallet didn't

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move as far as I can tell.

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The only thing that seems to have changed, which is real creepy, is all

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of my tool heights are now like six thou what 0.06, longer than they should be.

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So I'm retool hiding all my tools.

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and they're all averaging, I'm keeping a spreadsheet roughly 6,000 longer,

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so that tells me that something moved.

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Not a good feeling.

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so it was a hard vertical crash.

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Yeah, I'm a I, This is why I wanted my audio to play, cuz

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I will you can hear it here.

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Oh, oh,

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What the fuck,

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Oh my God.

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I,

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right?

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It shook.

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It shook the machine like the camera in that room shook

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that, that I got that audio.

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And Ricky came running and yelling, Are you all right?

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He's like, That was afterwards.

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He's like, That was the scariest noise I've ever heard here.

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It's like the first scary thing I heard and I was like, Yeah, it, It was pretty

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terrible, like pretty terrible noise.

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Shh.

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rough, rough afternoon.

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it was a,

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Like shook my entire confidence in all of fusion.

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Like all I knew about machining, cuz I was just like, here, here's the crazy.

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It simulates fine still.

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There's no simulation errors.

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It is literally a bug in safe start all operations, which

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I started using last week.

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So you could restart mid program.

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So it cancels all, all things at the beginning of a, of a program.

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So like each operation.

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So I was doing a flat operation with the three eight cinema, and then it was

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going to a 2D contour with the same.

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The same file and it safe started there at the top of that operation.

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So it canceled all the offsets, brought it up to the top, but instead of setting

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the tool offsets again it first rapid straight down to the wrong height plane

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because there was no tool off height offsets until after, after the rapid move.

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Right.

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And apparently I'm the first one to figure this out in all of

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the fanic post users of Fusion.

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I don't understand how that's possible, but I, I'm the luck,

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I, I hope I get a bonus for that.

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I like a White Hat Hacker award.

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What are you basing that on?

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Well I immediately posted the auto dust slack and was like, Hey, so this real

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bad thing happened and I'm pretty sure I didn't do it, which was weird, first of

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all, to like, have you ever had a crash where you the operator didn't cause it?

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Cause I haven't

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No.

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And so a couple of the developers immediately jumped in and were like,

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Ooh, yeah, that's in every Fanic Post.

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And Matt Sir.

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And a couple others in our prepository.

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So somehow nobody else has done safe.

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Start with like multiple tool, like whatever that clause is,

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wow.

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And they're like on fast fix binge.

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But the other side of that is like, I didn't realize there was a place

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to look for change notes for post.

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Infusion.

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I never even thought about it.

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I never would've thought like my working post was needing updates.

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Cause I don't pull them down.

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I just use the one always.

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you, you just pull it and use it, right?

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Mm.

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So I put a link to link to where you can check for those.

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So if you're if the, I sure they'll fix it after this, today's October 26th.

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But if you use a Fanic or a Matura or a Sill or a couple others, Supposedly most

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of those, if you're using safe start all operations, you can crash your machine

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because it puts the offsets out of order, the the correct code parameters.

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So

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Mm,

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fun, fun, fun afternoon.

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Yeah,

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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making such good progress too, and it just like shattered my world for.

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Yeah, it's so disconcerting.

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I've only ever had very minor post issues,

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Mm-hmm.

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just like really little things like 2d not too deep contours.

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What's the other one?

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The one that fills the space, You know, What's the cult?

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That's 3D printing.

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Jim

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Oh my

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3D parallel maybe, or.

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That's more, It's in the, No, it's just a 2d,

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2D face,

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2D pocket park.

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It, Yeah.

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I had a post issue on our on Cameron.

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Just had some really weird glitches where pockets would, you know, simulated, right?

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But then the cut, depending on the part geometry, it would just

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step down in weird little ways.

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Kind of like ghost in the machine.

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It's just, it wasn't a big deal.

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Didn't, you know, didn't lose anything, didn't break tools,

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but like so disconcerting to have a machine like misbehave

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It is.

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It's

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really really strange, like.

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I'm not trying to over exaggerate this, but I legit felt like I

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saw like a car crash for a bit.

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Like no, obviously nobody died and it just, well, like such adrenaline

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and like it, it shook the floor.

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Like it was just very jarring.

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I don't understand like if it comes out of this unscathed except for

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like a little bit of z change, which, what did bolts move?

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Did I stretch the casting?

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I don't really know, like not good.

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I'll be pretty surprised if nothing's really wrong with it for how hard it is.

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I sent you, not that you have to watch it right now, but some photos

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and a video of of it happening.

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Cool.

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Thanks I dunno if I want to hear that noise again.

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Even like the low-fi version of it coming through, this is frightening.

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So where, where's it at now?

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Are you just still resetting?

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Yeah.

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This morning I was between talking with Autodesk.

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going through, I'd gotten kind of a nice checklist from Al Fusion

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on what I was like, I don't even know where to start here.

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Like, what am I checking?

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Like I, I'm sure you kind of have to, be around a crash to

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know what to check for, I think.

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And I never had anything to this extent.

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just, yeah, dial indicated that like the machine to like the table.

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I never had before in that way, and like then checked the pallet to see

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if it had moved off of, but it's like dead on like indicator like

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doesn't even move when I'm run.

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Sweeping it, I checked, I'm just now currently at the state of going

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through each tool logging what it said in a spreadsheet for Tool

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Heights and then measuring it again.

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And they're averaging almost exactly six thou every one of.

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Like, it'll be like 4,006.

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How?

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Something's moved, huh?

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If this was like a Kern or you know, something pricey, this

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would be many digits to, to fix.

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I.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Anyway, How's your, how's your week,

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Well nothing, nothing of that level of excitement by any means.

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I guess that's good.

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Yeah.

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No, no crashes.

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We did have a machine down over the weekend.

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Had a tiny little.

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Under Trinity.

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Trinity's kind of got more advanced vacuum hold down than Cameron

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Oh,

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and she's got vacuum zones.

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Cameron's just like all in

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Mm.

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hoovering, the full surface.

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Whereas Trinity, we can select I think quadrant, oh,

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sorry, sorry.

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Microphone can select quadrants, which is actually really, really useful cuz

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you can kind of just switch on the bottom left quadrant and get like amazing.

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Full, full power just in one spot.

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But yeah, one of the solenoids that controls one of the zones dropped out

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on the Wednesday or Thursday last week.

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So we had, I think two, two days with that machine down, waiting for a tech

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to come out and replace a $2 part.

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So we now have some spares of that little cheap part that we

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can replace ourselves for next.

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The part itself, you know, it's, I'm exaggerating.

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It's not a $2 part, but yeah.

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You know, it's a small

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just pneumatic oid that failed.

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So we should be able to do that ourselves next time.

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Cause I think that's the second time, second or third

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time, one of those has failed.

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I feel like that I hear those.

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Maybe it's like Saunders talking about it, but that those fail somewhat

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frequently, but maybe that's not true.

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I don.

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I don't.

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They're pretty simple little things

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Yeah.

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anyway so Trinity was down for a few days and Trinity is kind of our main production

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machine these days while Cameron's been locked up machining this acoustic panel

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job, we've had a lot of, lot of work.

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Doing that contract machining of that acoustic wood wall stuff

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this month, heaps more than usual.

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So Cameron's pretty much just been a dedicated set up, making

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a mess, machining that nonsense.

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And so yeah, losing our main production machine was a bit of a hindrance

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this month, but I think Johnny's catching up now getting back on track.

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And yeah, we've been a little bit short staffed with people

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away, but hasn't been too bad.

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John's been keeping a handle on production management with

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Ben overseas at the moment.

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Hmm.

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And yeah, no production's going pretty well.

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That's good.

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of smoothly.

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Smoothly, which is, you know, always feels.

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Still feels weird to me when things are just like going smoothly.

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what's wrong?

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What if, what have we missed?

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enough people to pay attention to all of it.

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Yeah.

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Just, just could do with another couple of people at the moment,

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but they'll be back soon.

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Otherwise, what are we doing?

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We've had a terrible month of sales.

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Sam we're like half of what last was,

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Yeah.

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that was like one of our best ones ever.

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So, but that's like so characteristic of like, I just swear I'm always, two

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years ago maybe, where maybe before pandemic, where it was just like steady.

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We'd get the same amount every month ish, maybe a couple thousand.

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Now it's just woo woo.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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I reckon we're seeing greater variability too,

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Yeah.

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so yeah.

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I dunno what's going on there.

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I don't know if it's market, a market thing.

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It really depends who you talk to.

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Like some people are like, Oh yeah, of course it's cuz of the

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economy, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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Spending habits, and then other people are like, Mm, nope.

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people.

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I don't know.

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I don't know what's going on.

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I haven't changed my spending habits, so

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Did we ever talk about this?

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I don't know where.

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I probably think I found it on TikTok maybe, but I found this marketer,

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it's called Stacked Marketer.

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I'll put a link to it if you're interested.

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I don't read at all, but it's like a daily email for marketers, which I

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barely find myself approaching that.

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they'll often have really interesting, like kind of big announcement

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news about like, you know, Instagram's gonna start doing this

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or like just that kind of stuff.

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Or like, you should look at this type of.

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In, you know, real ad or is now doing this creepy thing, or

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Yeah, that's the kind of thing I need to sign up to.

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it's a lot, honestly.

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Like I barely skim.

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Usually I like scan it, but sometimes there's some really good stuff in there.

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But they, I think yesterday it said some, oh no 3:00 AM today.

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The subjects slowing.

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Good morning.

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It's slowing down.

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Big number of tech co share their Q3 earnings this week.

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There's some good and bad news.

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The bad Google's advertising revenue dropped.

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Microsoft dropped, Spotify dropped.

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So

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Hmm.

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like it's not just us.

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They have weird slowness.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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that's not even weird.

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No, just is, huh?

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So yeah, slow month there.

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Trying to, We've got a couple of days left, so we've done a little

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campaign, dropped, put free shipping on everything yesterday, so I'll

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try and promote that today to get a few more web sales in, in the door.

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And what else?

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Yeah, just chasing up a few custom leads to try and close those

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out for the end of the month.

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But yeah, I don.

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I feel like I'm just sort of in a world of social media metrics and Premiere.

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I had like crazy fever dreams on the weekend.

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I think I must have been fighting a bug or something.

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I was, my daughter was sick and I must have got a bit of what she had and.

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Saturday and Sunday night.

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I just had these horrible cyclical fever dreams of like script premier,

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why am I, Why am I editing in premier?

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I should be editing in script.

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And it was just like this cycle of like, Descript script, premiere

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script, like all night long.

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It was pretty horrible.

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Anyway, I got in Monday and I was like, Okay, maybe I

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should do something about that.

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And I did.

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I ran some, like, I dropped the same 4K footage into prem and into script and

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was just comparing sort of functionality and playback speed and Descript

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script was struggling, to be honest.

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It takes some time for the clips to kind.

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Yep.

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load or what buff process or whatever they're doing in

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the ma, the Magic des cloud.

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And also then the just editing playback with that 4K footage was a little bit

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slow and clunky, whereas in prem, I'm fighting on this computer in prem.

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It's just like boo perfect playback.

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I couldn't scrub.

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It's quite fast.

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But

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do really like the editing workflow in the script though, so I don't know.

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Like, like this speed of what?

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I mean, it's totally different to edit a podcast than like, One of

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your, our marketing videos where it's more like, you're thinking more and

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like, Oh, I gotta put this clip here.

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It just, you know, speed through it basically.

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But like the speed of which you can cut stuff out and like move through it.

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Like, I love the, the zoom and like using the keyboard commands and

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Yep.

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It works so beautifully with even just little things like track pad

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functionality versus mouse functionality is just like really intuitive in group.

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Whereas in Premier it's you like Zoom is a bit weird and like unresponsive.

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Anyway, anyway,

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It sucks when I'm like, I usually end up editing the podcast in bed

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with inverted color mode cuz I'm like, Oh, I gotta hit this tonight.

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Get

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it just just choose through battery compared to everything

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else, which is surprising.

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Oh dear.

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No, I can't, I can't talk.

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My editing is usually late at night too.

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Yeah.

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Speaking of, we're trying to change that.

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How are we trying to change that

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you just slipped into like a script, Justin's script mode.

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I

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are trying to

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planned.

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I've been reading a script the whole time.

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What do you mean

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Well, yeah.

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Should we shout out to our inaugural?

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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Is that appropriate?

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Yeah.

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He's been a good supporter of everything I've done lately.

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Oh, that's sweet.

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It's a good dude.

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Oh, well, if he's your dude.

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Oh,

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you, Scott.

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Over to you, Justin.

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So we're starting a Patreon.

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We've started a Patreon for parts department, and this isn't like

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some money grab because podcasts don't usually make money, Right?

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Especially these kinds.

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So there's a few costs with the show hosting and editing software and our time

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to do it, which we kind of just wash away.

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But it is a lot of time and we're trying to find enough money here so

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that we can have a podcast editor.

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so that we don't have to do it anymore because we enjoy doing it.

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We enjoy talking, but it is a decent amount of time to

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make a, an output every month.

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So we have a few tiers that for what you're comfortable with,

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and there'll be a link below.

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But one of which I think my favorite tier is at $10 or higher, you get a secret

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show episode, which will be, I think we're thinking like every month, and it'll.

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You've, you've had a lot of thoughts about what do you think

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will have in the secret show?

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I would like to just go a bit more in depth with financial stuff cuz

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something that frustrates me in life, but particularly in this sort of content is

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people not going quite deep enough for my

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Mm-hmm.

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or not sharing things.

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And so I'd like to be able to sort of share a bit more about, you

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know, how much should we spend on digital marketing last month.

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did that result in which I don't always feel comfortable going to

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that level of detail in a regular episode, but yeah, perhaps in that

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sort of bonus content episode with a much smaller audience than that

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would be a fun, fun thing to touch on.

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So for me, yeah, it's talking finances in more depth.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Or maybe like sharing the intimate details of how your machine

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crashed, which I already did, but

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Even more

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doesn't happen again.

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Yeah.

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Bring you inside.

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come inside the mill room with

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Justin.

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we've, been kind of teasing the, the details of it for trying to figure

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out, you know, how to make it something that you all would wanna support and.

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You know, we're a fairly small show, but we get a lot of comments

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from people appreciating it.

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So we like to think of it, I think, I like to think of it, I think

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we've talked about this, it's like business therapy for Gemini.

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And I guess my pitch to you is like, this is a very cheap

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business therapy for you as well.

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Hopefully it's way cheaper than hiring a consultant if you

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support a Patreon for a podcast.

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So, make it a donation.

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That's expensible.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So thank you.

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Thank you to Scott Bennett of House Fish Design.

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Thank you Scott.

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First he, we had some stories and he was the first to jump on it without

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any question, which is how he has been supporting our new products too.

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I think he has a shop saver similar to ours, and he's.

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A couple of our newest things within a couple minutes of them

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going live, so I've appreciated

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Oh, awesome.

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Super cool.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Well, the other thing I'd say, we're not intending to change the show.

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Don't freak out.

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This is gonna stay the same.

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We're just gonna probably go a little deeper on a few things.

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The other option, I think the highest tier we have right

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now, $25, there's going to be?

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All right, so at Dawn's, Deb Burgers at $25 a month.

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Have a quarterly hangout as well.

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So does, so does gem's robots at $10 a month.

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So the $25 a month.

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Also get you random surprises, which we can't tell you about obviously,

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because then they wouldn't be random.

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But pick what you feel comfortable.

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And we appreciate it.

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Either way.

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Yeah.

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No.

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Any support would be amazing To feed the editing.

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Beast.

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The editing effort.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

The beast.

Speaker:

Don's getting tired.

Speaker:

It's

Speaker:

Poor dawn.

Speaker:

Poor dawn.

Speaker:

It it, it's coffee time.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I made two coffees this morning.

Speaker:

I've got them lined up on my desk for one.

Speaker:

One gets cold, I can work onto the next, No, it's mine.

Speaker:

So I went to a trade show yesterday,

Speaker:

was it local?

Speaker:

No, I was in Melbourne.

Speaker:

Wow.

Speaker:

I guess that's local, right?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

Seems seems local enough.

Speaker:

local enough.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I went to a trade show about waste,

Speaker:

Ah,

Speaker:

was interesting.

Speaker:

It was kind of you know, it was big boy waste, you know, big recycling.

Speaker:

Plants soil reclamation, shredders for like huge metal, you know,

Speaker:

recycling lines and stuff like that.

Speaker:

So it was kind of cool to see a bunch of, sort of big industry stuff, but

Speaker:

also had some good conversations with people about, you know, met a couple

Speaker:

of companies that potentially take something like our sawdust product.

Speaker:

Whether it's pre-cost or post compost, but like people that could potentially

Speaker:

deal with the volume of sawdust.

Speaker:

With that, we generate,

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

That's cool.

Speaker:

people that sell shredders, some of which were potentially small

Speaker:

enough or suitable for us to be able to like, cuz we, you know, we're

Speaker:

holding all the sawdust that we.

Speaker:

With the aim to compost it, turn it into soil but then we're still putting,

Speaker:

you know, all the smaller, useless little scraps of plywood and stuff in

Speaker:

the bin, which is going to landfill, which we, we ultimately, we want

Speaker:

to get rid of landfill completely.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And one way to do low, vast majority of that would be to shred all those smaller

Speaker:

off cuts down to a size that they could then be fed into the compost stream if we

Speaker:

can get this compost thing up and running.

Speaker:

So, Yeah, getting some prices on shredders.

Speaker:

I think the cheapest one was about $40,000, but you know, it was good to

Speaker:

see one operating and get a sense of scale and investment and stuff like that.

Speaker:

I'm sure there's cheaper options out there, which might

Speaker:

be more suitable for us, but

Speaker:

So this could intake like plywood and like chunk it up into, like, then do

Speaker:

you pe do you, could you like compact it or is that a completely different

Speaker:

type of machine that's also $40,000?

Speaker:

Another , that's another 40 k I think.

Speaker:

No, this, this just shreds it.

Speaker:

So, you know, you know, like when you're packing a bin with random off cuts

Speaker:

off the sea and here it tends to be pretty inefficient in terms of space.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

So first, and you know, first and foremost, it would just reduce our volume.

Speaker:

It's not like we're throwing out any less, but it would reduce the

Speaker:

volume in the bin, which is a small.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

but then the, the main thing for us would, it would achieve is just being able to

Speaker:

switch where that waste output's actually going and put it into our compost stream.

Speaker:

So yeah, I'm just kind of cool.

Speaker:

Looked at, they had like a clean energy expo next door, so had a quick look at

Speaker:

some like three phase battery systems?

Speaker:

That could potentially be tacked onto our solar system here.

Speaker:

Cause at the moment we feed excess solar back to the grid, but we get a

Speaker:

very small return for that feed in.

Speaker:

So if we could store that energy and use it ourselves, it'd be much more valuable.

Speaker:

So, down the track, I'd love to get a battery pack, but it's,

Speaker:

again, it's a big investment.

Speaker:

So,

Speaker:

Did they put this, this, this expo on for you specifically?

Speaker:

Cuz

Speaker:

seems like, it seems like

Speaker:

I was the only one there.

Speaker:

to your interests.

Speaker:

No, there were heap of people there.

Speaker:

Like

Speaker:

it was, It was interesting walking in and trying not to be like, I'm not a

Speaker:

cynical person, but like in this sort of area, a little part of me goes, Or

Speaker:

there's so much money in the, you could just smell the money, like the sort

Speaker:

of people trying to capitalize on the sort of clean energy movement, but also

Speaker:

just like how to, how to put more shit in the ground for a, for less money.

Speaker:

Differently.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

How to, How to bury shit differently.

Speaker:

But yeah, that's good.

Speaker:

Good.

Speaker:

It was just nice to get away.

Speaker:

the workshop too

Speaker:

and just take a joint by myself in the car.

Speaker:

Had no other appointments.

Speaker:

I dropped in, had a cup of tea with Sarah in the Melbourne office.

Speaker:

Had a nice chat.

Speaker:

It was good to see her in a native habitat, and

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

it was a good day.

Speaker:

Sounds nice.

Speaker:

It's nice that you can

Speaker:

Retu.

Speaker:

do that and not feel that you know, you've got the situation, which we've

Speaker:

talked about at length, how you.

Speaker:

Integral.

Speaker:

You're not running the machines every day.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Like you can leave and stuff's stuff's fine and people are

Speaker:

getting stuff done and it's nice.

Speaker:

I'm pretty useless.

Speaker:

It's great.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

. Yeah.

Speaker:

That's why you got the cubby.

Speaker:

The carby.

Speaker:

I'm designing some new cubbies actually.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Having been enjoying my cubby so much, I want everyone else to have a cubby

Speaker:

Please tell me you're building like small, portable offices.

Speaker:

almost, almost.

Speaker:

with a piano that plays sound clips.

Speaker:

No, no.

Speaker:

Main client I've talked about a little bit.

Speaker:

We have, weekly design sessions.

Speaker:

Which often end in whiskey and

Speaker:

why you like them now.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

We just hang out in his child's cubby and drink whiskey at the end of the day.

Speaker:

Umm, what?

Speaker:

It's a good thing.

Speaker:

No, we've been working on.

Speaker:

We share a lot of ip, so like his product design feeds into

Speaker:

ours and our feeds into his.

Speaker:

It's kind of one of the few client relationships where

Speaker:

I'm quite happy sharing.

Speaker:

threading and clip crate technology to sort of assist

Speaker:

cuz it's a very bidirectional, Anyway what was I gonna say?

Speaker:

We're working on a little, I'm doing some work on the office here to try and make

Speaker:

it a bit more useful for the guys now that we have quite a, you know, heavy

Speaker:

admin component to our business like Jay.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

Aaron spends a lot of time in the office doing sales.

Speaker:

Jay's full time in the office.

Speaker:

Like I'd like to make the office a little bit nicer cuz it's always just been

Speaker:

really ad hoc and I'd like to give people a little bit more sort of sound privacy

Speaker:

and just like the ability to get put blinkers on and focus when they need to.

Speaker:

So I've been working on some little like office pod things using

Speaker:

thread of Dell and what woven felt.

Speaker:

So it's been fun little project and I'll.

Speaker:

Prototype one of those in the coming week, I think.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Be good.

Speaker:

Very fun.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Should be

Speaker:

what's, what are you guys banking at the moment?

Speaker:

What's Ricky

Speaker:

are making more dust boots.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Great.

Speaker:

We just had a rash of sales in the last couple days, which is nice.

Speaker:

And we were just about out and They're, they just go on spurts.

Speaker:

It's like, I swear, it's like everybody, they, they get seen at the same

Speaker:

time or I don't know what happens.

Speaker:

But making those,

Speaker:

you keeping?

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

Are you keeping the printers busy?

Speaker:

they, we've where we're ahead for a bit there, so they've been sitting,

Speaker:

they'll probably start up again.

Speaker:

We only have basically one working one.

Speaker:

I'm still working with Perus on trying to get the other one.

Speaker:

To work again.

Speaker:

So it's been good to have two.

Speaker:

And actually the second one is now having y crashes as well.

Speaker:

Oh no.

Speaker:

I don't understand like what causes this because it's not the same files and just

Speaker:

like suddenly it had like 50 y crashes.

Speaker:

I don't know.

Speaker:

And they, they like Bruce's support's there and helpful.

Speaker:

They're always willing to help, but you can sit for an hour and go through

Speaker:

all the same diagnostic checks and like tests and then like, I have to leave,

Speaker:

or Ricky's gotta go work another job.

Speaker:

Or like, we get to this place where like, well check on this and come back to us.

Speaker:

And then we have to like kind of start over the next time with a new person.

Speaker:

It's like never consistent, like which is, I get it, but it's also

Speaker:

like, man, there's gotta be some better way that we've been working on.

Speaker:

Seemly like six weeks.

Speaker:

Cause it's like whenever we have enough time, somebody will

Speaker:

jump into fixing that again.

Speaker:

And my fix of the week is now the middle.

Speaker:

So hopefully it's fine and we'll move forward.

Speaker:

I guess, oh, here's a question just to come back to that.

Speaker:

This is the thing I keep thinking about.

Speaker:

I mean, we're pretty not to.

Speaker:

Not to steal from the secret show, but we're pretty, you know, cash tight

Speaker:

right now with like waiting for a new product and spending a lot of r and d

Speaker:

money on the new product stuff, thinking it was gonna be out, which it's not

Speaker:

as I thought in October would you, if you were me, have a tech come in

Speaker:

to look at this thing at this point?

Speaker:

gut feeling, quick response.

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

And I think, Cause yeah, if you're cash tight, I don't know.

Speaker:

It's not crucial.

Speaker:

Like, it's not like you've.

Speaker:

A product.

Speaker:

I know it's crucial to this new product line, but it's not like you've got

Speaker:

a product line that's was already in

Speaker:

Being make, Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

That'd be different for.

Speaker:

Then you'd be like, Right, how do I get this back online as quickly as possible?

Speaker:

But because you're still in that kind of pre-launch r and d mode to

Speaker:

some extent, I guess that gives you a lit little bit more time whether

Speaker:

you wanna spend that time or not.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

As far as I can tell, what we would suffer from is accuracy or like, I don't think

Speaker:

there's anything that could be further broken cuz the spindle sounds great.

Speaker:

Great.

Speaker:

So I think it could be just more like tweaking diagnostic stuff

Speaker:

that I don't fully understand.

Speaker:

And it seems, I'm hoping by the end of the day I'll know whether

Speaker:

or not cutting more stuff came out.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

But I also don't like have a CMM to check all of it anyway, so I never

Speaker:

But that's the

Speaker:

kind of thing.

Speaker:

like, if it sounds all right and sort of checking out mechanically, then like why

Speaker:

not just get it back online and run parts

Speaker:

I, that's what I'm thinking too.

Speaker:

as quickly as possible, like get it cutting chips again as quickly

Speaker:

as possible so you can verify.

Speaker:

And then if you find anything really weird, then.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

. Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Which,

Speaker:

then you call the text

Speaker:

yeah, if I can

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

still, my probably at least capable machinist skills or metrology.

Speaker:

I just don't have a lot of metrology tools.

Speaker:

And also it just wasn't really a thing with the router.

Speaker:

So I spent most of my years.

Speaker:

Not being concerned with any other than like a cheap Cper , you know,

Speaker:

like nobody, nobody cared.

Speaker:

So I think my concern at this point is I was in the middle of making a fixture

Speaker:

that I have to, like, I'm bringing the height down on all of it and leaving

Speaker:

one of those areas that the, the bits I'll probably share some photos.

Speaker:

The bit is injected into, and I'm just, luckily that was just an extra alignment

Speaker:

pin area for this bar that goes on it.

Speaker:

But my concern is like if this machine isn't square and like tight

Speaker:

now and I'm making a fixture, then everything after that is shit.

Speaker:

Potentially, I don't

Speaker:

know, but just kind of gotta roll with it, I guess.

Speaker:

Tell a

Speaker:

It's got a probe in it.

Speaker:

Right?

Speaker:

You've got a reassure or something.

Speaker:

Can you put one of your pallets that you've already

Speaker:

made back in it and probe it

Speaker:

Probably.

Speaker:

to try and work out if there's anything?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Like, cuz that's kind of the pallet you've just made is kind of a known dimension.

Speaker:

Should be known location on the bed.

Speaker:

mm-hmm.

Speaker:

If you could then probe

Speaker:

can tell.

Speaker:

Seemed to have

Speaker:

stretched though.

Speaker:

stretch other than that Z stretch.

Speaker:

Maybe you could verify like x, Y and variance in Z by probing the pallet

Speaker:

so that you've just made, I don.

Speaker:

yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

Maybe somebody has some ideas.

Speaker:

I'll, I'm gonna keep, Autodesk has been pretty helpful and I'll keep

Speaker:

reaching out to other people I think that have experience smashing

Speaker:

machines and what to do with them.

Speaker:

So other than that, I.

Speaker:

Crushing it.

Speaker:

I felt like I had, I just felt like I made a ton of base parts, like nine different

Speaker:

parts in one day, like on Friday.

Speaker:

It was just like I made all of the sizes and all of the new parts we needed in like

Speaker:

two thirds of a day, which was crazy fast for how fast I was moving with all the

Speaker:

rest of it, but just like I don't know, it just suddenly clicked and that that

Speaker:

last pallet of fixtures just went super.

Speaker:

And so I was moving on to the next one and had this weird issue.

Speaker:

So

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

Hmm

Speaker:

You want to support the boys of the Parts Department podcast, right?

Speaker:

Starting right now you can go show your support on Paytreeon.

Speaker:

Jem and Justin consider this their weekly therapy, you should too!

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What,

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mm

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board?

Speaker:

Are you,

Speaker:

Not

Speaker:

the.

Speaker:

Not much at all.

Speaker:

I haven't, Yeah, I've been really failing to make time for r and d.

Speaker:

I've been quite focused on making videos for like web and marketing

Speaker:

purposes, which feels crazy.

Speaker:

What am I doing?

Speaker:

I mean it,

Speaker:

I can see both sides though.

Speaker:

It's like both are what?

Speaker:

Supposed to be doing, and like I'd, I suppose if I would use your medicine

Speaker:

against you that you've, you've injected into me is do a little of both each day,

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Huh?

Speaker:

which has been helpful and I've kind of ignored, I've basically been completely

Speaker:

locked into like, finish pedestals.

Speaker:

But like, you know, when I do do the, a little bit every day, I do

Speaker:

feel like that's the best outcome.

Speaker:

How I can work and how I feel.

Speaker:

I feel like I've done all the right things every day versus when I'm

Speaker:

just like sucked into one process.

Speaker:

I'm like, Oh, what did I do?

Speaker:

I'm like, You feel like you're like unconscious a little bit.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

No, I mean that space at the moment, just a little bit too

Speaker:

obsessive about it, and then.

Speaker:

at the same time, trying to keep myself consistent.

Speaker:

So I'm when I have those doubts about like, what am I doing, Just

Speaker:

making Instagram videos for a job.

Speaker:

This is crazy.

Speaker:

It's like no jam.

Speaker:

It's only been a couple of weeks.

Speaker:

Just hang tight.

Speaker:

head down, keep going.

Speaker:

Are they working though, is the

Speaker:

but I need to, I need to reset my default diary.

Speaker:

Well, I mean, nothing really is working in sales at the moment, so who knows?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But yeah, no, I got heaps of things on my to-do list and some

Speaker:

fun ones on there too, so, yeah.

Speaker:

I had a weird thought the other day as we were packaging up all the duck

Speaker:

towers that we shipped, which was sweet.

Speaker:

All the first round went out yesterday and The UPS driver pulled up to pick

Speaker:

up, and I had accidentally mistaken which day I was shipping some of 'em.

Speaker:

So he thought he was picking up three and he was like, Oh, well

Speaker:

no, I need to go get the truck

Speaker:

And I was like, Yeah.

Speaker:

But I was thinking about this is kind of a, a next level, probably, maybe

Speaker:

something that you could get into.

Speaker:

We were talking about job costing and I kind of relate that to how I

Speaker:

price products and the profitability of them, especially related to like

Speaker:

this stack of unprofitable products.

Speaker:

And

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

in particular, when you have a more complicated to package prep for shipping

Speaker:

product like that almost has to be accounted for in the cost of the product.

Speaker:

Right?

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

Absolutely.

Speaker:

and it's like something that you were saying, you don't account for

Speaker:

your packaging costs, but it's.

Speaker:

I, I will do like a vague number of packaging costs, but I've

Speaker:

never consciously thought like, Oh, it's taking Ricky two-thirds

Speaker:

a day to pack all these boxes.

Speaker:

That's not accounted for in any way.

Speaker:

You know, like cost-wise, it's just kind of always been like,

Speaker:

Oh, I'll do it, you know?

Speaker:

Yeah, you gotta get that time in there.

Speaker:

I mean, I can't talk.

Speaker:

Yeah, as you say, we've excluded c and t time for carton cutting, which is silly,

Speaker:

but certainly at that time that it takes to package a product bundle, put it in a

Speaker:

cotton, even just like booking the cour.

Speaker:

Getting the customer details right, booking the career, like

Speaker:

all of that just eats time.

Speaker:

Oh

Speaker:

We've gotten better at it over the years and we have more templates

Speaker:

in our, like where we log in and book the jobs and stuff like that.

Speaker:

But still, yeah,

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

it eats hours and has to be part of the product price, I reckon.

Speaker:

Because it's, it is an interesting, we made some pretty

Speaker:

cool packaging for those parts.

Speaker:

, I accidentally ordered catering boxes for the duck towers to ship in.

Speaker:

So it looks like we shipped lasagnas to people with like our packaging tape on it.

Speaker:

It ended up working great because if you just would've put some

Speaker:

paper in there, they would.

Speaker:

Smashed around and hit each other.

Speaker:

And like I was saying last week, so it came out perfect on my

Speaker:

Chester, caught us some cardboard for it, and Ricky designed it.

Speaker:

It's folded up and it went out super well.

Speaker:

I guess I don't, I have, I've only heard one person that has received it locally so

Speaker:

far, so I'm hoping it gets to everybody.

Speaker:

I just struck me.

Speaker:

I was like, Man, so if you had a really complicated to pack product, . It

Speaker:

absolutely is costing more than, Anyway, I'm rehashing, but it hit me

Speaker:

for the first

Speaker:

I get you.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

How do you do your product pricing?

Speaker:

You in just a spreadsheet or

Speaker:

make a spreadsheet.

Speaker:

I kind of usually copy like the most recent or one that makes sense and then

Speaker:

I'll, Most of those things tend to work and then I update the things that don't.

Speaker:

don't update it frequently, but although, you know, the cost of things has changed

Speaker:

so much, you know, all over the place that it feels like you need to kind of keep

Speaker:

updating it more often now than I used to.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

like resold one of those CNC carts that we've had on our, on our

Speaker:

shop, somebody bought like two of

Speaker:

'em, which was random cause we never sell them.

Speaker:

And it had Baltic or like Russian birch pricing.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

bridge pricing from like pre pandemic

Speaker:

That's all

Speaker:

that cost of, So I literally had to just, it was like one of the first times, I

Speaker:

just can't, I just emailed the customer.

Speaker:

I was like, I can't take this order.

Speaker:

Sorry.

Speaker:

Like we would be paying

Speaker:

you.

Speaker:

to take this and I update the price and they, it seemed

Speaker:

kind of like a scam almost.

Speaker:

Cause like the person never responded at all anyway.

Speaker:

Maybe they just didn't see it, but you would've thought if they can't, they

Speaker:

bought something and then it didn't ship.

Speaker:

They would be concerned too.

Speaker:

But anyway, it almost doubled in cost after, because of that.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Gone are the days of Baltic Birch.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

We've, we've got all of our product pricing.

Speaker:

In air table, which at times feels like a real chore, but it's from, in

Speaker:

that respect of being able to keep it updated with changing material prices,

Speaker:

cuz it's all linked to our inventory.

Speaker:

It's been really good just being able to crosscheck and look at the variance

Speaker:

of like, cool hoop pine just went up 5%.

Speaker:

What does that do to this product?

Speaker:

Okay, it's still within the right margin.

Speaker:

Let.

Speaker:

Fiddle with that price for now, but review it again in six months and see.

Speaker:

Does it go as does it go as far as each product pulls in its own cost

Speaker:

and that gets fed into Shopify?

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

Oh my God, that's amazing.

Speaker:

it's manually pushed to Shopify, like we have to, It doesn't, you know,

Speaker:

if a material price gets updated in inventory, it's not like Shopify.

Speaker:

It suddenly gets new prices.

Speaker:

consciously go, right, we're gonna update the five upright set of

Speaker:

shelves, push, you know, push this one cuz that one's now we're losing

Speaker:

money on that, or whatever it is.

Speaker:

But yeah, it is all linked, which is nice.

Speaker:

Just a little overwhelming at time

Speaker:

that's where I always find myself, like we tried to do that with Na qut.

Speaker:

frankly, like Andy built it and it was a good it.

Speaker:

He did nothing wrong, but it was so complicated to mess with

Speaker:

that I just never touched it.

Speaker:

I think I've talked about this before.

Speaker:

So now everything, the way I'd always done it, which I, I would like this air table

Speaker:

system, but frankly, if it's gonna stifle me from working on a new product now I'm

Speaker:

just like, Nah, I'll make a spreadsheet, a Google sheet I can update at any.

Speaker:

And it's not linked in any fancy ways, it's super easy to, to modify

Speaker:

and edit and create and it's all a little bit more manual, but

Speaker:

we don't have a million things.

Speaker:

I'm sure at some point that'll become a problem, but just hasn't been worth it to

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try.

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Yeah, it's unfortunate.

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Yep.

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to be a little better than that.

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Yeah.

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Ricky's hair.

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Ah, it's really

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Sorry.

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It's

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my applause button?

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The peg holes didn't go through.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah.

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We'll do that later.

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Sorry.

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Here.

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uh, I don't really have anything else, I guess.

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Um,

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Here.

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pretty good.

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Sounds good.

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Nice.

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Hmm.

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This is where I could wish I could just play us out with a little

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Oh my God, that'd be amazing.

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You could just have a song that looks like piano playing and

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you're just like, miming it.

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Play like Elton Jem.

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Ah, yeah.

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I'm sure there's a function for that.

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Cool.

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Alright, well, are you back to the mill?

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Yeah.

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I

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gotta finish measuring tools and then make sure that my.

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REM machining works cause I don't want to cut carbide with carbide.

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I don't think that works very well, but it, it puled it so far in there

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and it broke that I actually can machine on top of it and not hit it.

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I'm pretty sure.

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Wow.

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And somehow it didn't, like the first thing Ricky said when he came in is

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like, Did it hit the Pearson base?

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And I was like, picked it up and I was like, Oh my God.

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It didn't go through.

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Like, it just, it's, it's gonna be entombed in that.

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Yep.

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always staring at you.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, if you have advice on recovering your mill from

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a crash, I'd love to hear it

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Hmm

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and look for your fanic, Fanic and matura.

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Si Syntec ethereal halo.

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I don't know what some of these are, but those are all ones

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that potentially have this flaw.

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So look in the notes if you have one of these machines, cuz you

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could also crash your machine.

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Unfortu.

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Good.

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Well, I hope you get that Autodesk Trophy and

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would like a trophy.

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we'll see you next week.

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Yeah.

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See ya.

Speaker:

It just, just keeps going.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Parts Department
Parts Department
Justin Brouillette (Portland CNC) and Jem Freeman (Like Butter) discuss CNC machines, their product design and manufacturing businesses, and every kind of tool that they fancy.

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About your hosts

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Jem Freeman

Co-founder and director of Like Butter, a CNC focussed timber design and manufacturing business in their purpose-built solar-powered workshop. Castlemaine, VIC, Australia.
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Justin Brouillette

Founder of Portland CNC & Nack