Episode 4

4 - Nice Biscuits!

A full array of topics from cutting 40,000 half-inch holes, Incentivizing Innovation, Quoting with Quotient, 5-Axis CNCs, NDAs, and the Default Diary.

DISCUSSED:

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Please note: Show notes contains affiliate links.

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  • Both making "Pegs"
  • Incentivizing Innovation
  • Like Butter product development - Royalty to team member
  • Alexei Sayle clip on "Nice" - Dire Straits according to Alexei Sayle
  • Drilling 40 thousand 1/2" holes in birch ply?
  • Quoting with Quotient!
  • Growing Wood Parts
  • Feeds & Speeds are tough to acquire when starting out
  • Use the Onsrud Production Routing Guide PDF
  • NC Pocket's new 5-axis Alpha 4 (omg want)
  • NDAs
  • Balancing R&D vs Production - Jem works pre-production on R&D
  • Default Diary - Break down planned blocks with space between for flexibility; Dedicated quoting block linked with the business manager has been really productive.

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HOSTS

Jem Freeman

Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia

Like Butter

More Links


Justin Brouillette

Portland, Oregon, USA

PDX CNC

Nack

More Links

Transcript
Justin:

Hey, how are you?

Jem:

How are you?

Justin:

probably been better.

Justin:

It's been a little bit stressful since the compressor thing

Justin:

kind of continued for days.

Justin:

let's just say they weren't easy to work with after the fact.

Justin:

We've had a little bit of a residual problem where it

Justin:

seems the breaker may be shot.

Justin:

it's kicked on to run a couple of times.

Justin:

hit the breaker and the breaker goes out.

Jem:

The compressor or the breaker on the street?

Justin:

no, the breaker and our panel, the power surge, the electrician hasn't

Justin:

come look at it again, but thinks that it could be the breaker's bad now

Justin:

because it did go through the breaker.

Justin:

When it surge, you hear it.

Jem:

I can hear a machine.

Justin:

That's the compressor.

Jem:

That's the compressor

Justin:

It's kind of this weird wine.

Justin:

I say it sounds like an ATV starting up.

Jem:

louder than uhh Prusa

Justin:

to hold dowels.

Justin:

We need something.

Justin:

That's like a hook or a peg for the Nack Wall behind me.

Justin:

We've haven't

Jem:

Yep

Justin:

And I.

Justin:

think

Justin:

stumbled onto something there.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

And I had the good morning on the Pencil Sharpener and they yesterday

Jem:

trying to get a production version of our 25 mil threaded peg happening,

Jem:

because I've wanted to do, we've made peg symbol pegboards boards for years, just

Jem:

like a dumb one inch dowel in a hole.

Jem:

that's been a reasonably successful product over the years.

Jem:

You know, peg boards, I don't know about over there, but

Jem:

peg boards kind of everywhere

Jem:

here

Jem:

Yeah

Jem:

for ever dowel diameter is really inconsistent.

Jem:

And every batch

Jem:

we get, is it.

Jem:

Diameter subtly.

Jem:

And so we, machine holes to suit basically batch by batch almost product by product.

Jem:

And so someone buys a peg board with 10 pegs and then, you know,

Jem:

a year later they want more pegs.

Jem:

There's always this just like, oh, wait, I don't know if these

Jem:

are actually going to fit.

Jem:

They're going to be too tight or really sloppy and hang down in the hall.

Jem:

Ever since I started threading stuff, I've wanted to do a threaded peg

Jem:

board just to get rid of variation and just have everything a machined fit,

Jem:

get rid of all of that sloppiness.

Jem:

It's been one of those products that's kind of been on the

Jem:

back burner for years now.

Jem:

Finally making some progress on that.

Jem:

John cut some prototype

Jem:

panels recently, and yeah, I've been working on the version

Jem:

of the dowel peg on one end.

Jem:

I'm making some progress there's a bit of product development

Jem:

happening at the moment.

Jem:

It's been good and everyone's kind of bit

Jem:

fired up and

Jem:

working on new things.

Jem:

Cause it's been a while since we had some fresh product to come through,

Justin:

Those are I find those to be very invigorating times.

Justin:

I knew that's what I wanted, but once people here the team got

Justin:

a taste of product development to lights fire everybody.

Justin:

smiles, it's more

Justin:

exciting there's less stress.

Justin:

curious?

Justin:

Would you replace the existing version you have a

Justin:

dual

Jem:

I would scrap the old one completely..

Justin:

Yeah

Jem:

And I

Jem:

think, you know, some of those pegboard products that we've got may

Jem:

be replaced with a threaded equivalent.

Jem:

some of them may go altogether and just get replaced with something

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

fresher, rethought, because there's lots of legacy, we've

Jem:

been designing plywood products for over 10 years, I think.

Jem:

So there's a lot of like weird legacy hangovers from previous products

Jem:

or previous ways of doing things.

Jem:

And those little legacy decisions just survive for like ages.

Jem:

I mean, you have to consciously sort of go and cut them out and trim, prune them

Jem:

from time

Jem:

to time, I think.

Jem:

but yeah, it's a really nice vibe when everyone's jazzed

Jem:

up about product development.

Jem:

We've got a sort of semi-formal scheme here where, any staff can bring.

Jem:

Products to the table.

Jem:

And then we have a sort of royalty system.

Jem:

If they become a Like Butter product than we pay royalties on to whoever

Jem:

designed them as a way of trying to sort of encourage people to

Jem:

spend time

Jem:

thinking about product development.

Jem:

The current system is that if you, bring a product to the

Jem:

table that you've kind of developed

Jem:

in your own time, off the clock, so to speak, and we look at it and go, cool.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

that suits the butter family of products kind of get approval

Jem:

to then develop it further.

Jem:

and it becomes one of our products.

Jem:

And then I think 5% of sales, or gross revenue on

Jem:

then goes back the designer.

Jem:

So it's been

Jem:

a really nice system the years

Jem:

most people on now have a product.

Jem:

On the website through at the moment, which has been really cool.

Justin:

Yeah, that's awesome.

Justin:

Yeah, I've,

Justin:

always

Justin:

wanted everybody to have a hand

Justin:

in designing things

Justin:

and there was hesitation early I

Justin:

think,

Justin:

for people to think that were

Justin:

That they could contribute to

Justin:

that.

Justin:

especially because think maybe you've had a

Justin:

similar thing where like, we

Justin:

went to school for something like that And it feels like

Justin:

maybe it wasn't same or I wouldn't but no, that's, I think to this

Justin:

point that's changed dramatically and I'm happy about that.

Justin:

That, not that we have very many products, but that everybody's ideas are equal.

Justin:

It's my goal.

Jem:

Yeah

Jem:

too.

Jem:

I was just going to say with, people haven't come through design school, you

Jem:

know, have been here for years and have learned so much on the job about design

Jem:

and

Jem:

manufacturing that their

Jem:

ideas are as valid and, you know, can be cleaner in some ways

Jem:

because they don't have that sort of, some of that, design language

Justin:

I would say

Justin:

my

Justin:

requirement to

Justin:

that have to have an opinion.

Jem:

Yes

Justin:

you

Justin:

can't

Justin:

bystander at any

Justin:

You have to have

Justin:

to have a strong, like, fight

Justin:

this feature thought but like, you

Justin:

can't, you somebody what do you about can't even say so it's

Justin:

That's not helpful.

Justin:

none of that.

Jem:

There is great Alexei Sayle clip on the word "Nice"

Jem:

time the cycle between the holes for me?

Jem:

so it was good to get just like a little real time data point on that,

Jem:

but still when there's that many, the potential for blow out is high.

Jem:

So yeah, I'm interested in how you tackle stuff

Jem:

like that

Justin:

it's not 40,000 a sheet it's over the project.

Justin:

held project yet.

Justin:

Okay.

Justin:

We've had interested people asking us to quote jobs where it's like, sorry,

Justin:

just going to shut that off in a sec.

Justin:

we've had people ask us to do, I think it was over a thousand holes in a

Justin:

sheet, like many, many thousand holes.

Justin:

And the takeaway I got too is they budget would never like their project

Justin:

budget never made

Justin:

sense for how

Justin:

holes we needed to make them I did the same thing.

Justin:

I tried to use cam to estimate time and

Justin:

love

Justin:

your fusion.

Justin:

Never accurate, not even close I maybe if you somehow get

Justin:

in kinematics perfectly and

Justin:

optimize it somehow get but closer on Surprisingly.

Justin:

I think some of that has to do

Justin:

of

Justin:

the works

Jem:

well and Fusion's built around mills.

Jem:

So sense.

Jem:

Yep.

Justin:

Then I use VCarve to try it and then we've tried just physical that.

Justin:

And I think the testing is as close as you're going to get in my opinion.

Justin:

You can get

Justin:

crazy if you can somehow hold the part and then stack sheets.

Justin:

That's one of the ways you could really speed it up, right?

Justin:

Like if you could somehow keep, I don't know how important the whole alignment

Justin:

and all that is, but it's decorative.

Justin:

You can try that, it's tough.

Jem:

that stuff.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

We're going to look at, shade stacking

Jem:

see can do something

Jem:

that.

Jem:

We've done that on jobs in the past with thin stock where it's six mil

Jem:

Birch and we've stacked three or four sheets with really good results.

Jem:

but this one don't know if that's going to work because there's

Jem:

a bunch of those rebates in the surfaces of some of those sheets.

Jem:

I we'd have to do like an op why not two on

Jem:

separate machines

Jem:

change over between the cycles and then the drilling cycles.

Jem:

And then, yeah, but we'll try.

Jem:

I think we will try stacking if we can,

Justin:

I don't know, this is a first what's a rebate.

Jem:

I think you call them.

Justin:

Oh, sure.

Justin:

Okay.

Justin:

Yeah, yeah,

Justin:

Much to our amusement over here

Justin:

yeah.

Justin:

I know.

Justin:

It's the same.

Justin:

Somebody commented on.

Justin:

I think it was the,

Justin:

Laundromat Manufacturing commented post.

Justin:

And he re posted something and called it a taster.

Justin:

I really, really

Justin:

that Cause we like a teaser

Justin:

for a trailer

Justin:

video

Justin:

and we've only had a couple of

Justin:

those so far, our, our enjoyment of each other's language,

Jem:

How are you I'm

Jem:

in what tools you're using for quoting.

Justin:

like actually sending the quotes.

Justin:

We use that Quotient mostly that quotient program.

Justin:

it's not perfect.

Justin:

I wish I could modify a few things, but I would say from

Justin:

the client's side, they love it.

Justin:

it is hands down a win in terms of, we always get compliments on that process.

Justin:

And I think that's really important.

Justin:

I wanted to really improve that as part of having faced, the opposite where it was

Justin:

like somebody sends you an email with like

Justin:

six

Justin:

numbers and tab you know, to

Justin:

different.

Justin:

Columns and it doesn't work.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Cool

Jem:

I need to check it out.

Jem:

I was chatting to Jay about it yesterday here, and Jay had

Jem:

listened to the and had you

Jem:

Quotient and Jay was like

Jem:

I, I literally, I don't want to even open it in a browser tab

Jem:

cause I know I'm just going to go

Jem:

Uh, a

Jem:

hole of

Jem:

looking

Jem:

more options.

Justin:

there's a, there's other stuff out there and I haven't

Justin:

looked, I started using it like 2018,

Justin:

I'm

Justin:

guarantee there's alternatives, but what's, it's a flexible

Justin:

system that allows you to kind of templatize things, templatize quotes.

Justin:

for example, when pricing material is more reliable, like you could have

Justin:

your four B Baltic Birch price in there with an image, a description of what

Justin:

it was, who had sourced from that's.

Justin:

Some of that's private, some of it's.

Justin:

And then markups quantities, and you can drop those into

Justin:

any quote them in a template

Justin:

and then

Justin:

make them optional

Justin:

multiple choice or

Justin:

And then it tabulates at the bottom and they get all that live through a web view.

Jem:

Cool.

Jem:

So they get like an interactive view of that quote the customer end.

Jem:

can I select options?

Jem:

Yup

Justin:

Yup, yup.

Justin:

Yes, you don't want it's good.

Justin:

so you'll

Justin:

also the part

Justin:

maybe I have buried

Justin:

lead

Justin:

here.

Justin:

haven't into projects in

Justin:

Airtable so it dumps all that information from the

Justin:

quote once won straight into an Airtable project and creates it.

Jem:

Okay Oh stop.

Justin:

It's not perfect

Justin:

way implemented it

Justin:

but it saves

Justin:

the step of taking the project name

Justin:

Copying it over and

Justin:

all that kind of stuff

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

I think we have to look at that.

Justin:

It's it's satisfying for sure

Justin:

And I forget, I asked before it is Zapier.

Justin:

So yeah, it

Justin:

handling in between, and they've of integrated pretty

Justin:

So you could potentially start front end by

Justin:

entering client information and stuff

Justin:

probably automatically.

Justin:

It also integrates

Justin:

with So big loop They're

Jem:

Cool.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

I think we should look at something

Jem:

before we spend months building our own version of that in our Airtable.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

sure.

Justin:

It's pretty affordable.

Justin:

bucks a month.

Justin:

I think.

Jem:

So I had another fun thing happened on the Pencil Sharpener this week.

Jem:

when I was on the tools last week, I ran the Pencil Sharpener and the heaps

Jem:

just running the little bolts and caps that we make for the KittaParts system.

Jem:

Just components, they automatically cut off.

Jem:

So you can kind of just load stock set and forget for awhile

Jem:

and towards the end of the week.

Jem:

Cause you know, doing my little spot check, quality control and putting that.

Jem:

The Vernier on them.

Jem:

And now like these, some of these dimensions of growing and

Jem:

like checking them in the bore that they're designed to fit in.

Jem:

I was like, yeah, these are getting dangerously tight like

Jem:

they're almost out of spec.

Jem:

I was a bit perplexed.

Jem:

And I was like, cause I've had some buy me stuff happened with the pencil sharpener.

Jem:

Like it lost all its WCS as once.

Jem:

And there's been a few little things which have made me distrust

Jem:

it's computer a little bit

Justin:

That's the fun part.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

fun, fun.

Jem:

So I was like, maybe it's a code issue, but that doesn't really make sense

Jem:

because everything else is running fine.

Jem:

I was a bit Plex and I thought at one point I remember thinking, oh,

Jem:

maybe it's tool where maybe it's just like tools cooked, looked good.

Jem:

It felt sharp.

Jem:

I got to, it started this week and I was like, cool.

Jem:

First thing I need to do is just put a fresh tool in there.

Jem:

Change the tool.

Jem:

Perfect.

Jem:

That goes back to absolute numbers.

Jem:

The threading tool

Jem:

on the parts?

Jem:

No, the cutting

Justin:

cutting tool.

Jem:

So the three flute up spiral that does

Jem:

the roughing basically before the threading

Jem:

comes in and just that tool change just took the parts back from like

Jem:

29.5 back to So like a half millimeter across the diameter.

Jem:

you

Justin:

do you use a microscope at all?

Justin:

Like one cheap

Jem:

Nah,

Justin:

you

Jem:

I've got, one, but I lent it to my mother-in-law to look at

Jem:

insects and I haven't got it back.

Jem:

yeah, I found that really interesting while we had looking at tools, whether

Jem:

was cool, yeah, just really interested where it was making such a big difference.

Jem:

Cause I, I guess it's reflective of the machine in that it's has, it's

Jem:

not a mill you know, it's, it's still effectively a D I Y machine.

Jem:

So I guess there's probably enough deflection in those cheap Makita

Jem:

spindles and the whole thing that means that when a tool starts getting

Jem:

dowel, that it really can just like just doing this, like waggling around.

Jem:

like we can tools a lot further on the CNC ma like sorry on the routers

Jem:

really push tools until they're dead with minimal repercussions.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I don't know if you've found this.

Justin:

I've always

Jem:

cutting anything circular be

Justin:

tough to hold

Justin:

Hm

Justin:

or it's harder on the router.

Justin:

I'd have much experience with the mill yet, but it just

Justin:

always seems a tougher cut that.

Justin:

I think it's just the constant opposing forces.

Justin:

Any, you get a nice result typically, but I could see that being part of it

Justin:

where it's constantly being kind of pushed out as well as you could try

Justin:

something, maybe you do this already.

Justin:

I've watched some of your operations do your roughing and then do one

Justin:

or two cleanup spring passes.

Justin:

And that may give you a little bit more it may solve some of that.

Justin:

Like where at the end, can you do compensation on that, on that.

Jem:

you can.

Jem:

That's a good idea about stretching the tool life for the spring pass.

Jem:

I should look the that

Jem:

He can come on the master.

Jem:

It's really nice control, like way more involved than any

Jem:

control I've ever had before.

Justin:

But

Jem:

because of the weed way of

Justin:

programmed there's no

Jem:

I'm not tools in the control.

Jem:

I'm using

Justin:

TBI

Jem:

I'm

Justin:

using WCS

Jem:

as tools.

Justin:

So tool one is

Jem:

55, till two is 2 56, et cetera.

Justin:

yeah,

Jem:

I don't know.

Jem:

I can't even remember why I set it up like that, but I, because

Jem:

there's, there's effectively five tools, but no tool changer.

Justin:

yeah,

Jem:

So that was kinda my work around of like

Jem:

having five tools that can potentially all be working at the same

Jem:

time like

Jem:

absolute best case scenario.

Jem:

I don't think I'd ever do that, but theoretically possible.

Jem:

And so having each one assigned to a WCS, kind of just made sense and has

Jem:

worked quite well, but it means I've.

Jem:

means I don't have options like compensation.

Justin:

I have two very opposing systems and they have very different,

Justin:

ways to do some of that stuff.

Justin:

Like we've never done compensation on the router.

Justin:

think we had one employee that ran a lot of different types of

Justin:

machines before he worked here.

Justin:

And he was the first one to try compensation.

Justin:

He was like, that works great.

Justin:

You should use that more often.

Justin:

I was like, ma nobody cares.

Justin:

It's a

Justin:

You know, like,

Justin:

Not, not that we're like knowingly parts

Justin:

joke we always have a lot the who make stuff

Justin:

like as long as it's within a 16th

Justin:

of an inch, which is like

Justin:

inches

Justin:

It's like a mile.

Jem - EQ:

I just realized my backup audio.

Jem - EQ:

Wasn't rolling.

Jem - EQ:

And it stopped two minutes in,

Justin:

Hmm.

Justin:

Interesting.

Justin:

Uh, I, Hmm.

Jem - EQ:

I mean, so there's only what's in zoom.

Justin:

Okay.

Jem - EQ:

It's rolling again now.

Jem - EQ:

Damn

Justin:

that'll happen.

Justin:

tool where yeah.

Justin:

Oh, it's interesting that.

Justin:

We always find that whenever there's like a knick in a tool or we get some bad edges

Justin:

you know, whoever's running the machine and be like, I just changed that tool.

Justin:

And then like, you look at it under a microscope and there's a Nick, right.

Justin:

Where you think you don't expect it and you can't see it by eye.

Justin:

And it's like ruining your top surface basically.

Jem - EQ:

Are you using compression cutters?

Jem - EQ:

Typically

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Anything layered?

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah

Jem - EQ:

we've over the years we've used, pneumatic bred guns or nailers

Jem - EQ:

to help with vacuum holes.

Jem - EQ:

down

Jem - EQ:

On shades where like we're cutting thin strips or something.

Jem - EQ:

And there's not enough fact empower.

Jem - EQ:

We're like pop a couple of C1 Brad's along the top edge or

Jem - EQ:

on the corner of the sheet and

Jem - EQ:

things like that And

Jem - EQ:

like that.

Jem - EQ:

And they just destroy compression cut is when you hit one, unfortunately

Jem - EQ:

it's tiny bit of steel, but it's enough to kill a cutter, but I've always

Jem - EQ:

wanted to buy one of those plastic.

Jem - EQ:

bradders have you seen those?

Justin:

I was going to say, yeah.

Justin:

I have not bought one but I've seen peopel use them

Justin:

I saw it at a show one time too, but it sounds smart.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Jem - EQ:

Can just cut through them as

Jem - EQ:

you need.

Justin:

I'm pretty sure that most of our chip tools like that

Justin:

come from vendors, stapling in crap to the side of the plywood

Jem - EQ:

and

Justin:

when you don't catch it, we have like one of those cheap,

Justin:

like security wands that like

Justin:

and it won't get, it'll get like a full staple, but if it's just one

Justin:

leg of a staple, it doesn't catch it.

Justin:

And we've had too many times where a brand new, a hundred dollar

Justin:

compression cutter gets nicked.

Justin:

And then it's basically useless.

Jem - EQ:

you

Justin:

when I would make mostly run the machine.

Justin:

My solution was to use screws into this world board

Justin:

often

Jem - EQ:

such a mess of the spoil board though.

Justin:

You can't do it more than once and that spot, or it's just trashed,

Justin:

but you know, you get that really warped piece of material that won't go down.

Justin:

You got to cut side up.

Justin:

It's like, what are you going to do?

Justin:

Stand on it while it's cutting.

Justin:

I haven't done that.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I have to.

Justin:

is that your tool management concerns, uh, more thoughts

Justin:

on

Jem - EQ:

my tool management concerns.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

Look, I hearing people talk about real mills tool, life tracking and stuff makes

Jem - EQ:

me wish our machines had that function.

Jem - EQ:

same,

Jem - EQ:

But it just doesn't seem to be a thing with timber

Jem - EQ:

Machining

Jem - EQ:

controls.

Jem - EQ:

They don't seem to bother putting into life management or like time

Jem - EQ:

in the cart and stuff like that.

Jem - EQ:

I would love that data on our machines,

Jem - EQ:

Shane's,

Justin:

in the states that will change tools based on how many sheets they run.

Justin:

So this

Justin:

you know, you're cutting a cabinet, you're only cutting like five to 15 parts

Justin:

on a sheet, you know, like it's pretty.

Justin:

And so they'll run them for a certain amount of time and then change them.

Justin:

we've never done anything to manage.

Justin:

It's just a keen operators, right?

Justin:

Like watching QA the surface, like how to look like, does it look like it's fuzzy?

Justin:

Is it we've always really optimized to do as much as we can to get the

Justin:

best edge off the machine rather than post-processing and, just prided

Justin:

ourselves on making good clean parts so that, I don't know, they just look good.

Justin:

Seems like the way to do it in my opinion,

Jem - EQ:

for years, I think we were just running pretty generic feeds and speeds.

Jem - EQ:

Without

Jem - EQ:

too much consideration.

Jem - EQ:

I think we'll just like chasing edge quality and we're

Jem - EQ:

like, yeah, that looks good.

Jem - EQ:

Fine, fine, fine.

Jem - EQ:

And then at some point we started sort of clothing into the fact that we could get

Jem - EQ:

twice as much time out of our tool life.

Jem - EQ:

If we increase the chip load and slowed the spindle down and like got bigger

Jem - EQ:

cooler chips and that was a game changer.

Jem - EQ:

just by changing our spindle

Jem - EQ:

spindle

Jem - EQ:

speed and our chip load, we suddenly were getting way more tool life.

Jem - EQ:

was just a game.

Jem - EQ:

It was just one of those legacy things.

Jem - EQ:

We just started with certain settings when like, cool.

Jem - EQ:

This works.

Jem - EQ:

If we go,

Justin:

I had a hell of a time trying feeds and speeds

Justin:

but if you're cutting metal, every manufacturer has an aluminum

Justin:

cutting guide and Chiplan chart.

Justin:

And the only one that I really trust here in the states is Vortex tool.

Justin:

Like we use a lot of their tools and the rest of them are like, I'm just

Justin:

going to say, it's not that too many people listen to this, but Amana tool,

Justin:

feeds into, see charts are trash.

Justin:

They are horrible.

Justin:

Like they literally are too slow, almost always to the point where

Justin:

you're damaging the tool by using their suggestion feed rates.

Justin:

And , I don't understand.

Justin:

And you only learn that by running through a lot of tools, right?

Justin:

Like you're burning them up and you're like, what's wrong.

Justin:

I just find that frustrating that it's not better yet.

Justin:

I guess maybe it's up to us to make some of that change or something.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, look, I, I feel some responsibility to

Jem - EQ:

communicate that stuff for sure.

Jem - EQ:

there's a really good, document from Onsrud . I'm not sure how you say it

Justin:

Maybe Onsrud I'd guess

Jem - EQ:

Onsrud.

Jem - EQ:

There's a great PDF that I've referenced for years, which is the Onsrud

Jem - EQ:

production routing guide or something.

Jem - EQ:

It's mainly like a 50 page PDF and it goes deep into carbide and what destroys

Jem - EQ:

carbide and how to look after it.

Jem - EQ:

that's a really good sort of primer

Jem - EQ:

for

Jem - EQ:

anyone who's running a machine to read through about six times before

Jem - EQ:

you understand what it all means.

Jem - EQ:

But, I've found that a really useful document for us internally,

Jem - EQ:

anyone who's running machines to be across to some extent.

Justin:

Yeah, I think, I think that's totally right.

Justin:

I didn't know about that one.

Justin:

I come to understand that there some of the top routing experts.

Justin:

And the world, they make their own machines.

Justin:

They make tooling, they make everything.

Justin:

And it seems like respected

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, they built some pretty sweet machines.

Justin:

double gantry.

Justin:

Five-axis craziness.

Justin:

Speaking of five-axis,

Jem - EQ:

I

Justin:

sent this to you, I think earlier, pocket's NC

Justin:

founder has been working on this.

Justin:

I don't know what to call it larger, but not full size.

Justin:

Five-axis machine medium.

Justin:

Medium-sized five-axis maybe he'd call it.

Justin:

And I have been watching this cause he's just kind of been posting it on his

Justin:

Instagram, which is inventor captain.

Justin:

I'll put a link to it it looks I've, you know, I've always wanted a five axis

Justin:

machine and I don't see having a $150,000 machine anytime soon, but this thing is.

Justin:

Very appealing to me.

Justin:

I think it's just well-designed to, from an aesthetic point of view.

Jem - EQ:

small footprint machine.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

It's man, I don't even know like a decent size office printer.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

Okay.

Justin:

it's not that

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

So in this sort of pocket in pocket,

Jem - EQ:

NC

Jem - EQ:

NC family, in terms of scale, like a desk top machine.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I think he could probably consider it that it feels a little it's price is

Justin:

60 to 70,000 is what they're it at.

Justin:

So it's still not cheap.

Justin:

I think it's areas probably looks like about six by six by six.

Justin:

So I don't know what that I can never, maybe you can translate the

Jem - EQ:

One 50 by one 50.

Justin:

bad with my translations.

Justin:

It feels like there's really not a, maybe I'm just not aware of competing

Justin:

machine in this place, price point, this, going to be a big step up from

Justin:

the actual pocket, NC original machine.

Justin:

I think

Jem - EQ:

What would you make on something like

Justin:

my wife and she said the same thing.

Justin:

Like what, why,

Justin:

why would you that?

Justin:

I think we need a new rule about machines where it's one in one out.

Justin:

And I was like, I don't know if that's how it works really, but

Jem - EQ:

that rule.

Justin:

I get your sentiment.

Justin:

I could see prototypes.

Justin:

I mean, it is surprising how much you can make on even our mill with a pretty

Justin:

small footprint or work envelope.

Justin:

It's not that far off.

Justin:

I would imagine from some of the Kern work areas, like some

Justin:

of those are pretty small.

Jem - EQ:

made me think of a Kern when I saw it the way it's styled.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Justin:

Kern mixed with like a DMG Mori.

Justin:

Maybe

Justin:

They look like they're made for the, for the contemporary times, rather

Justin:

than most machine tools look like they're made by like somebody bending

Justin:

sheet metal in like the sixties.

Justin:

I

Justin:

don't know

Jem - EQ:

yeah, look, I, I find things like that appealing as well, but I

Jem - EQ:

really don't know what I put on them.

Jem - EQ:

Like what, what's the little, the newer five-axis house.

Jem - EQ:

Gold.

Jem - EQ:

yeah, that UMC.

Jem - EQ:

UMC Jem:

Justin:

Yeah, I think they might have a smaller one than that now three 50

Jem - EQ:

or 300

Justin:

but yeah, 500 is 701,000.

Jem - EQJem::

Yeah, that's right.

Jem - EQJem::

This is the seven 50.

Jem - EQJem::

And then the 500.

Jem - EQJem::

I remember when the came out and for a while, a few weeks there,

Jem - EQJem::

I was just lusting after it, this little compact five-axis mill, but

Jem - EQJem::

there was only like, I could only think of one part that I'd make on

Jem - EQJem::

it.

Justin:

yeah,

Jem - EQ:

And

Justin:

yeah.

Justin:

it Jem

Jem - EQ:

But as with all machines, like, I love to be gutted by the machine

Jem - EQ:

and the process and what's available.

Jem - EQ:

So, you know, my justification on such things is always just, just

Jem - EQ:

get it on the floor and we'll find out what we can do with it.

Jem - EQ:

But that's very hard to justify to, uh,

Justin:

That money.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

business partners when, uh,

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

it's that much

Justin:

money thinking about buying this mill, it took about a year

Justin:

from the time of first started talking about it until was in our

Justin:

shop, maybe a little bit longer.

Justin:

once we even had it, I still had this like, creative block about

Justin:

like, all right, we've got this tool.

Justin:

What can I make with it?

Justin:

I think from not being around metal making machines, like that are mostly

Justin:

metal, but the precision, the accuracy, the kind of speed and capability of it.

Justin:

I just, it took me quite a while before I finally started like, oh, I can make

Justin:

that part, you know, on it like this.

Justin:

And I could reliably change the setup or palletize or, you know, any of

Justin:

these things that most people that work in the, with these machines kind

Justin:

of come to realize it took me a bit.

Justin:

And that's a shame to that.

Jem - EQ:

terms

Justin:

I, this brass part, this is my damage.

Justin:

kind of changed my game, honestly, for feeling confidence.

Justin:

And just even like setting work offsets was like pretty

Justin:

stressful and I didn't trust it.

Justin:

And I always felt like I was going to crash all the time.

Justin:

Cause I just didn't understand what I was doing as well.

Justin:

And so yeah, now that I have a better grasp, I think I released

Justin:

the stress of working with it and now I can use it more like a tool

Justin:

than an opposition or something.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

Cool.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, I can relate to that.

Jem - EQ:

I think plays with any new tool.

Jem - EQ:

There's a period of time there where.

Jem - EQ:

ideally for me, it just needs to be an sort of an exploratory time and

Jem - EQ:

it helps doing other people's jobs, I think, because you're forced to do

Jem - EQ:

things that you may otherwise avoid.

Jem - EQ:

Y you know, that, that part that you just showed me, like, I don't

Jem - EQ:

know how many setups that was, but it looks like two or three, at least

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem - EQ:

two to

Jem - EQ:

to get all those faces done.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

Nice.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

Cool.

Jem - EQ:

So it's nice to be forced into doing

Jem - EQ:

things

Jem - EQ:

for sure by doing client work, but also I think there's the other

Jem - EQ:

side, too, of having just playtime.

Jem - EQ:

Exploratory playtime sort of

Jem - EQ:

as

Jem - EQ:

as off the clock as possible in terms of the feel,

Jem - EQ:

not feeling accountable to how much time you spending faffing around trying to work

Jem - EQ:

out, work offsets and stuff like that.

Jem - EQ:

And just playing, I find that space really valuable as well.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I think I've been inspired by you talking about, I haven't done that as

Justin:

much, and I liked your it's taken me a long time to move into this idea of

Justin:

I could get up earlier than I need to be somewhere, especially like work.

Justin:

That was just not me for most of my life.

Justin:

And now something shifted weirdly in the pandemic where I just started waking up

Justin:

at like 6:00 AM and I was like, oh, okay.

Justin:

I guess I could use this time.

Justin:

And you were talking about coming in and like using that time to do R and D stuff.

Justin:

And I definitely liked that idea.

Justin:

I think I may try that on for myself.

Justin:

It sounds like a good, I usually end up doing that stuff like late in

Justin:

the day and then I'm tired and you know, I don't get as much out of it.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, I

Jem - EQ:

I find it a really good window for that Headspace.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, if you

Jem - EQ:

you can get out of bed, that's

Jem - EQ:

that's the

Jem - EQ:

hard bit

Jem - EQ:

bit

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I struggle with that too.

Jem - EQ:

say what's going on with these NDAs.

Jem - EQ:

I NDAs.

Justin:

is, I've never liked them, honestly.

Justin:

That's

Jem - EQ:

kind of it is

Justin:

feel like I'm not knowledgeable enough about could

Justin:

be in them that I'm signing myself up for something that I don't

Justin:

knowingly want to sign myself up for.

Justin:

And honestly, I think we've done.

Justin:

Maybe let's say I've signed 20 NDAs for potential client work.

Justin:

I bet we've done two to five of those jobs in the end.

Justin:

And they might have offset time for what, because they're

Justin:

not really that common here.

Justin:

Maybe when you're working with, you know, some of these giant

Justin:

companies, those, I understand.

Justin:

And honestly, I just kind of under that I'm getting screwed in any circumstance.

Justin:

They're like, I'm not going to fight them in a legal battle like this.

Justin:

Maybe just the very un-American thing, I guess, too.

Justin:

We're all about our lawsuits.

Justin:

not that I, not that I am, yeah, I just saw it.

Justin:

It might be an interesting piece of conversation that I, I was trying to

Justin:

think like, how do I disincentivize this?

Justin:

And one of the thoughts was like, maybe I could charge somebody to sign it

Justin:

their NDA before we started the work.

Justin:

Like, yeah, we'll, we'll sign your NDA.

Justin:

If it's a hundred bucks, you know, like I gotta read thing.

Jem - EQ:

I think there's a solid argument in

Jem - EQ:

that like yes.

Jem - EQ:

On one level.

Jem - EQ:

They're not that much work.

Jem - EQ:

You can just go.

Jem - EQ:

Cool.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, it's just another NDA sign, flick it back.

Jem - EQ:

It's like one extra email, but at the

Jem - EQ:

the same time, it's a legal contract and

Jem - EQ:

you could easily argue, Hey, I'm going to send this to my lawyer first, just

Jem - EQ:

to take five minutes to look at it.

Jem - EQ:

And that's that's money.

Jem - EQ:

And it's probably better practice to be doing something like doing due diligence.

Jem - EQ:

I'm not going to say probably it would be better practice to

Jem - EQ:

be doing that due diligence.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, I find myself now within NDAs, I don't do that many of them, but you know,

Jem - EQ:

maybe half a dozen a year or something,

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

and I'm, you know, I'm pretty sloppy with them.

Jem - EQ:

I do read them, but you know, I'm skimming the fine brand

Jem - EQ:

and I'm like, yep, yep, yep.

Jem - EQ:

Standard standard, whatever Cole sign, they go.

Jem - EQ:

And interesting to hear you say that a lot of those jobs don't convert.

Jem - EQ:

Cause I hadn't thought about that.

Jem - EQ:

But thinking about that now, I reckon we're in a similar position where very

Jem - EQ:

few of them have ever gone anywhere.

Justin:

Yep.

Justin:

I usually am pretty pushy.

Justin:

Or I'm demanding of that.

Justin:

I get a generic description of the project before signing it, because that

Justin:

usually cuts a good portion of those too.

Justin:

Like, Hey, before I know, I understand you don't wanna send me files.

Justin:

Totally get that.

Justin:

I mean, I've asked people to sign NDAs kind of before I really understood what

Justin:

I was doing, you know, when I was younger and dumber that usually works pretty well.

Justin:

Cause it's like, oh yeah, we're not going to end up doing a tiny, when we

Justin:

only had the router, like we're not going to do a aluminum mold for you.

Justin:

You'll probably sorry, like that doesn't make any sense.

Justin:

just, it's easy to kind of have those off, not liked him that much.

Justin:

a

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, It's

Jem - EQ:

it's interesting.

Jem - EQ:

I find

Jem - EQ:

clients there's

Jem - EQ:

you want that nice cultural fit with your clients?

Jem - EQ:

I think so when.

Jem - EQ:

The best clients that we have that could have totally served,

Jem - EQ:

served us sending very officious.

Jem - EQ:

The totally could have asked us to sign an NDA

Jem - EQ:

because

Jem - EQ:

they were, you know, developing a new product or something that they

Jem - EQ:

wanted to keep under the radar,

Jem - EQ:

the

Jem - EQ:

the best clients I've had in that space.

Jem - EQ:

We've just had a very Frank conversation of like, Hey,

Jem - EQ:

what do you think about NDAs?

Jem - EQ:

And, IP

Jem - EQ:

know, gripey protection and stuff like that.

Jem - EQ:

And we've just had a Frank conversation with like, you

Jem - EQ:

know, co well, in my opinion, we don't look for our own products.

Jem - EQ:

We don't deal with any of that stuff.

Jem - EQ:

Cause we don't want to spend time or money protecting our products.

Jem - EQ:

We'd rather spend that time and money developing new products.

Jem - EQ:

And if the client is on a similar sort of trajectory and thinking,

Jem - EQ:

then it's like, it's a nice match

Jem - EQ:

there in terms of energy and thinking,

Jem - EQ:

and

Jem - EQ:

maybe that's silly, but I'd much rather work with people who are

Jem - EQ:

kind of on a similar page to us and.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

Those relationships are easier and tend to get better results.

Jem - EQ:

So,

Justin:

Yeah, for sure.

Justin:

I think if I had to boil it down, It's time that it takes, and then

Justin:

you'd sometimes, it feels like we're not winning most of them.

Justin:

The second part is I it's the fear of not or apprehension that I'm not

Justin:

understanding what I'm signing and then

Justin:

Jem

Jem - EQ:

Yes.

Justin:

I should send this to a lawyer, but I don't know, like

Justin:

it's going to cost me money.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

And all that stuff about like any material that's kept on your

Jem - EQ:

servers and blah, blah, blah.

Jem - EQ:

It's like, cool.

Jem - EQ:

This job's not going to go anywhere.

Jem - EQ:

What am I going to do with these quoting files?

Jem - EQ:

Probably not going to do anything with these quoting files

Jem - EQ:

when the job disappears, but technically I should destroy them.

Justin:

I don't know about you, but every time we end one

Justin:

of those, I burned my servers

Jem - EQ:

Oh yeah, me too.

Justin:

Every time so that they know for sure I film it that way.

Justin:

They know I'm destroyed their products, their, IP

Justin:

Yeah

Jem - EQ:

we just clear the Dropbox.

Justin:

start over.

Jem - EQ:

have a server.

Jem - EQ:

Are you running cloud?

Justin:

I need to get something, but yeah, mostly we use almost all Dropbox,

Justin:

Google drive, kind of a combination

Jem - EQ:

Yeah,

Justin:

Sneaker net for the mill.

Jem - EQJem::

Yeah, Yeah, I remember.

Jem - EQJem::

at

Jem - EQJem::

The cost of servers years ago when we were thinking about upgrading

Jem - EQJem::

to the highest level of Dropbox, and it feels like a lifetime commitment

Jem - EQJem::

going to that level of Dropbox.

Jem - EQJem::

Cause you're like, I'm going to load my whole existence into this platform and

Jem - EQJem::

I'm probably never going to extract it.

Jem - EQJem::

At the

Jem - EQJem::

the time we thought, yeah, that was the way to do it rather than

Jem - EQJem::

trying to maintain our own servers.

Jem - EQJem::

We've got like a, an old PC at home with lots of hard drives in it that is called

Jem - EQJem::

cold storage and we just turned it on every six months and just let Dropbox

Jem - EQJem::

sync and then we turn it off again.

Jem - EQJem::

So we've got like a hard copy of

Justin:

what's your balancing?

Justin:

R and D and oh, I wrote that bouncing R and D and production or something I

Justin:

who wrote this.

Justin:

I feel like, I mean, there's just a lot more of you over

Justin:

there working in your company.

Justin:

So I'm usually the one trying to figure out how to, how to balance these things.

Justin:

So I'm curious, I find a lot of value in working on, like, we're

Justin:

just talking about new products or, or anything like that, but it also

Justin:

usually doesn't make money for a while.

Justin:

How do you all split the time on your machines?

Justin:

Is there a agreed system or it just happens between like a R and

Justin:

D versus a production time slot.

Jem - EQ:

We, trying to chase as much production time as we can at the moment,

Jem - EQ:

because after many years of flying pretty blind boy, finally sort of at a

Jem - EQ:

point where we understand our numbers and our break even, and all of these

Jem - EQ:

like nitty gritty financial details that we never understood previously.

Jem - EQ:

We we know what our billables need to be.

Jem - EQ:

So we chasing that.

Jem - EQ:

In terms of R and D budgets, you know, that's, for me, that's why I come

Jem - EQ:

in early and do it pre production.

Jem - EQ:

That's kind of my, time slot for that sort of work.

Jem - EQ:

and then we've rolled out a thing.

Jem - EQ:

They see a cold default diary, which is basically.

Jem - EQ:

For me and Sarah.

Jem - EQ:

Sarah is our business manager.

Jem - EQ:

It's kind of most structured with us where our time is broken down

Jem - EQ:

into quite rigid segments every day.

Jem - EQ:

And each day is pretty much a copy of

Jem - EQ:

the

Jem - EQ:

the previous one.

Jem - EQ:

And in some, you know, on Wednesdays, there might be one thing that

Jem - EQ:

happens in the afternoon and there's some unique stuff that

Jem - EQ:

happens during the week, obviously.

Jem - EQ:

But for the most part, we have a very structured default diary.

Jem - EQ:

And for me, that sort of 6:00 AM to 8:00 AM is my R and D slot.

Jem - EQ:

And then, John has a

Jem - EQ:

has a

Jem - EQ:

bit of a default diary happening as well, and he's got an hour and

Jem - EQ:

day slot, on Thursday afternoons.

Jem - EQ:

that's kind of how we're

Jem - EQ:

doing it at

Jem - EQ:

it at the moment in a sort of a, I guess, a very structured.

Jem - EQ:

And you know, I'll be honest I don't get in be honest.

Jem - EQ:

I don't get in at 6:00

Jem - EQ:

AM every morning.

Jem - EQ:

If the kids have slept terribly, we've had a rough night, I'll definitely

Jem - EQ:

preference mostly and getting just for

Jem - EQ:

night

Jem - EQ:

Yeah

Jem - EQ:

preference more sleep and getting just for the

Jem - EQ:

the normal time.

Jem - EQ:

That's how we're balancing it.

Jem - EQ:

Because we know our

Jem - EQ:

what our billables need to be.

Jem - EQ:

We're really chasing that as hard as we can at the moment.

Jem - EQ:

But at the same time, know how important R and D and product

Jem - EQ:

development is to a business.

Jem - EQ:

So making sure that that time is allocated and

Jem - EQ:

allowed for and giving permission to people to do that.

Jem - EQ:

what's your thinking around that?

Jem - EQ:

You just slotted in

Justin:

just hoping you'd say something like, I don't have a

Justin:

plane cause it make me feel better.

Justin:

But,

Jem - EQ:

Sorry.

Jem - EQ:

Nah, this is, you know, just the last six months for us.

Jem - EQ:

It's very fresh.

Justin:

The amount of help I have at the moment, which isn't,

Justin:

don't think we have enough help.

Justin:

It's been tough to hire here.

Justin:

wages have gone up unemployment's at record lows, and people either happy or,

Justin:

just, I used to get, just for example, when we'd hire like a shop operator kind

Justin:

of position, we get like 30 applicants now it's like five maybe, they're either

Justin:

not qualified or just not a good fit.

Justin:

And so it's been a little, frustrating that's a backwards way of saying

Justin:

I haven't managed my time as well as I'd like, I'd like to have more

Justin:

of a reliable schedule like that.

Justin:

And I definitely feel like I've been

Justin:

well, the, the way I've always described as I feel like a firefighter

Justin:

too often, where I'm like trying to put out the fires of the day rather

Justin:

than, oh, I'm coming here to work on X, whether it's a new product.

Justin:

quoting something or whatever that is.

Justin:

It always feels like I'm just kind of like playing whack-a-mole.

Justin:

I'd like to think if I had, you know, a couple other people in certain

Justin:

positions that that would change, but also, like I said, in the past,

Justin:

I'm not the greatest planning time.

Justin:

It's not my strong suit.

Justin:

So maybe, maybe I like that idea though.

Justin:

if you could elaborate a little bit on your own, I'm curious about this, like,

Justin:

unplanned

Justin:

times of the week?

Jem - EQ:

ideally it's not fully planned because you need space for

Jem - EQ:

the all the unplanned things that

Jem - EQ:

that happen.

Jem - EQ:

The concept is that you have planned blocks with space between them.

Jem - EQ:

So that, so for me, it's R and D in that first two hour block.

Jem - EQ:

And

Jem - EQ:

then I've got, I think an hour and a half for sort of production

Jem - EQ:

management, coming in, I'm like, cool.

Jem - EQ:

What are we up to on that job?

Jem - EQ:

Or that new job needs to be allocated to you, blah, blah, blah.

Jem - EQ:

that's a pretty whack-a-mole sort of time of like running around.

Jem - EQ:

just like

Jem - EQ:

Keeping everything flowing in the morning.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

after morning tea, I have a two hour quoting block, which is just

Jem - EQ:

like my dedicated coding time per day.

Jem - EQ:

And that's been really effective because Sarah is quoting block is after lunch.

Jem - EQ:

So like I'm accountable to her in that pre-launch slot to get all my

Jem - EQ:

calculations done so that she has something to process after lunch.

Jem - EQ:

That's been super powerful, that little accountability link.

Jem - EQ:

But also just having a structured time every day to get through quotes.

Jem - EQ:

Because prior to that, I was just like inbox overflowing.

Jem - EQ:

It's like, oh, what am I going to quit today?

Jem - EQ:

Maybe that one, maybe that one, maybe nothing

Justin:

encouraging that that works because I have the exact description of

Justin:

what you just said is, well, some days you get a lot, some days you don't and

Justin:

then I just deal with it as it happens.

Jem - EQ:

yeah

Jem - EQ:

so yeah, having that structure has been really good and then afternoons are a bit

Jem - EQ:

more sort of all over the place, but yeah, I've got a block for sort of marketing

Jem - EQ:

time and a block for just like business.

Jem - EQ:

I call it business owner time.

Jem - EQ:

It's just like trying to stop and think more deeply about whether it's

Jem - EQ:

financials or staffing stuff or systems.

Jem - EQ:

I find it harder to be disciplined on those sorts of time slots there.

Jem - EQ:

It's easy to just let the most pressing fire of the day, get your attention.

Jem - EQ:

And yet there's always stuff that's happening that you have to solve.

Jem - EQ:

Reschedule around, but having that, I guess that's why it's called a

Jem - EQ:

default diary because you always swing back to that default position of cool

Jem - EQ:

I'm this is my quoting block now,

Jem - EQ:

Right

Jem - EQ:

and that's what I'm going to do for the next two hours and try and focus on that.

Justin:

Yeah, I like that.

Jem - EQ:

It's been, it's been really effective

Jem - EQ:

for

Jem - EQ:

for me

Jem - EQ:

cause I'm yeah.

Jem - EQ:

I don't think

Jem - EQ:

cause I'm yeah I don't think I'm good at time management by any means.

Jem - EQ:

I'd say I'm

Jem - EQ:

I'd say I'm

Jem - EQ:

pretty terrible

Justin:

I think some of that comes from giving myself an out, I guess, is

Justin:

like that creative process for me is best when it's in kind of chaos mode.

Justin:

Like

Justin:

the ideas don't come for anything, production, fixturing, When I have to

Justin:

sit there and you know, like stare at

Justin:

like I'm walking, I just went to the dentist and I had an idea for

Justin:

how to solve bustling in the chair.

Justin:

It's like, you don't, you don't get to choose those things.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

That's right.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Justin:

Cool.

Justin:

Thanks for sharing.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, no

Jem - EQ:

no worries.

Jem - EQ:

what's on for you

Justin:

we've been 3d printing and that's been really successful actually.

Justin:

We were debating whether we could just make the part like that it's a

Justin:

little clamp piece that goes behind the wall, so you can thread stuff to it.

Justin:

I don't trust it.

Justin:

So it's always been intended to be an aluminum part and

Justin:

I need to just make that.

Justin:

It's not too far off.

Justin:

It's actually a pretty easy part.

Justin:

I just need to go test thread milling different ways and probably

Justin:

break some taps at some point

Jem - EQ:

that's

Jem - EQ:

because I

Justin:

know the machine has it and I've been advised that that's the better way to

Jem - EQ:

know.

Justin:

I would like to try both, honestly, just to understand them both a

Justin:

little bit better, once it's a reliable same product process, I think it seems

Justin:

thread milling is the better choice.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Jem - EQ:

I'll admit with my thread milling stuff.

Jem - EQ:

I've been pretty lazy because I've made

Jem - EQ:

all the parts that relate to each other.

Jem - EQ:

I've been pretty sloppy in terms of trying to actually hit

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem - EQ:

real tolerances.

Jem - EQ:

So it's not like I've, I've kind of loosely based it on a name 22

Jem - EQ:

thread, but I've

Jem - EQ:

I've never gone and bought some M 22 hardware and gone, oh, does it fit?

Jem:

Because it doesn't need to relate to that specifically, but

Jem:

I imagine it gets way more finicky and harder to find June when you're

Jem:

actually trying to match hardware.

Justin:

That's the best part about making your own products is they

Justin:

only work for your own products

Jem - EQ:

Yeah.

Justin:

How about you?

Justin:

What's your or, or the day you got, you got R and D right now until eight and then

Jem - EQ:

planning block

Jem - EQ:

my R and D.

Jem - EQ:

Okay.

Jem - EQ:

This, this is my R and D slot.

Jem - EQ:

Really?

Jem - EQ:

the month is winding up, spend the morning trying to push as many quotes

Jem - EQ:

and follow-ups, as I can to try and hit our sales target this month,

Justin:

Ah,

Jem - EQ:

pressure's on, because tomorrow's Friday

Jem - EQ:

and my closed on Fridays.

Jem - EQ:

So I've really only got one business day left to try and close out the month sales.

Jem - EQ:

We're doing okay, but I'd like to get it across the line a little bit further.

Jem - EQ:

see how we go.

Jem - EQ:

bunch of other stuff too.

Jem - EQ:

I've got some production drawings to do.

Jem - EQ:

We're making some call, American Oak tables that are coming up, which this

Jem - EQ:

will be a fun one to chat about later, but

Jem - EQ:

I'm

Jem - EQ:

mounting, I made this years ago, but I'm going to use it again.

Jem - EQ:

It's a fixture to Mount a really simple axis hanging off the front of the machine

Jem - EQ:

and do turning with the, with the CNC.

Jem - EQ:

So like put round, stocky and then turn it.

Jem - EQ:

Hopefully setting that up again next week and getting that in, but I need

Jem - EQ:

to get the drawings done for that job.

Justin:

yeah,

Jem - EQ:

I'm

Justin:

hoping there's some video or photos of this.

Jem - EQ:

They will

Jem - EQ:

will be.

Jem - EQ:

Yeah, for sure.

Justin:

Good,

Justin:

cool.

Jem - EQ:

All alright

Jem - EQ:

Well, a good afternoon chat to you soon.

Jem - EQ:

Thanks Justin.

Jem - EQ:

Bye.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Parts Department
Parts Department
Justin Brouillette (Portland CNC) and Jem Freeman (Like Butter) discuss CNC machines, their product design and manufacturing businesses, and every kind of tool that they fancy.

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Jem Freeman

Jem Freeman

Co-founder and director of Like Butter, a CNC focussed timber design and manufacturing business in their purpose-built solar-powered workshop. Castlemaine, VIC, Australia.
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Justin Brouillette

Founder of Portland CNC & Nack