Episode 8

8 - Screw those Screws

Jem and Justin chat about Jem's new Mac, the camera gear and methods they use for photoshoots and the future of digital fabrication.

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DISCUSSED:

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Please note: Show notes contains affiliate links.

Camera Talk

  • Justin's Sony A7iii
  • Jem's Fuji X-T4
  • Photoshoot methods - "Just Shoot" vs Planned Storytelling
  • Kits are essential in system products
  • Shopify Bundle Plugins
  • LB Coffee Table & other new products coming
  • Future of Digital Fabrication
  • Internal Growth
  • How are you getting in the way of this result?
  • Set up accountability loop?
  • Maritool Profit based on Scrap

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Show Info

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HOSTS

Jem Freeman

Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia

Like Butter

More Links


Justin Brouillette

Portland, Oregon, USA

PDX CNC

Nack

More Links

Transcript
Jem:

Oh good thinking.

Jem:

Clap on that night.

Jem:

Shall we?

Justin:

Yep.

Jem:

1, 2, 3.

Justin:

So you got on your computer.

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

How's that going?

Jem:

That's good.

Jem:

It's a bit of a time suck.

Justin:

Yeah, they are.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

it's fantastic.

Jem:

Very happy.

Jem:

Yeah, it turned up on Monday after saying last week that it was still weeks

Jem:

away, which is what the tracking said

Justin:

That's cool.

Jem:

suddenly it was there and I've spent a lot of my precious R and

Jem:

D time this week setting up rhino shortcuts and things like that.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

That'll happen.

Justin:

That are you like get in between, I was like, I'm gonna start using the new one.

Justin:

Then I just leave a bunch of crap on the old one for a

Jem:

Oh yeah.

Justin:

can't find

Jem:

crap.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jem:

No, it's really good.

Jem:

I'm happy.

Jem:

Super fast.

Jem:

So for the listeners, it's a MacBook pro 14 inch kind of mid spec, not quite

Jem:

the base model, but I can't remember all the numbers that are attached to it.

Jem:

16 gig Ram.

Jem:

And so far, everything is very fast and snappy.

Jem:

The one thing that I'm, coming from a fairly high spec, Lenovo ThinkPad.

Jem:

I bought as a mobile workstation that year or so ago.

Jem:

The one thing that is significantly slower is rhino

Justin:

Yes, I should probably should have told you that.

Justin:

Not since you use it so

Jem:

knew, and you didn't tell me yeah, it's laggy.

Justin:

I've been thinking about making this video cause I made

Justin:

videos about fusion and rhino.

Justin:

There really wasn't any, when the new M one stuff came out and

Justin:

so I made a couple of those and they get a piece amount of views.

Justin:

It seemed really great at the time.

Justin:

And since using it for the last, since 20, 20 different incarnations of

Justin:

the computers, now I've just come to realize they really need to make the

Justin:

native versions for it to really it I'm having this problem all the time.

Justin:

Now, especially with fusion that it just eats all of my Ram.

Justin:

And then it just like, I, it was using 17 gigs of Ram the

Justin:

other day, and I only have 16.

Justin:

And I was like, how is that even possible?

Justin:

Like what?

Justin:

So yeah, they were a little bit, they can get bogged down

Justin:

in terms of like multitasking and things made natively for it.

Justin:

It's so

Jem:

Amazing.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Cyrus.

Jem:

Yeah, look, I don't know what the deal is with rhino, because rhino

Jem:

is such a light application on PC.

Jem:

Like it uses barely any resources opens fast.

Jem:

It's really know.

Jem:

Cause I, I, I think I mentioned I have my sandpit file open

Jem:

pretty much all the time.

Jem:

It's got

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

heaps of geometry in it.

Jem:

And yet the first thing I opened on the new one was that sandpit.

Jem:

And I was like, Ooh, just panning, panning around was significantly slower.

Jem:

And so he'd, you know, 90% of the geometry and that helped significantly.

Jem:

So if I'm running a light rhino file, it's fun.

Jem:

It just gets bogged down with the big ones.

Justin:

I've read a little bit that on their forum, that they're

Justin:

really responsive on that they do have a work in progress.

Justin:

I don't remember if it's seven or eight that you can use.

Justin:

If you have a license and it's supposed to be native now or metal or

Justin:

something, I don't really understand quite what it is, but it's supposed

Justin:

to be improved and they're there.

Justin:

They've been working on a native version.

Justin:

So the trick with that will be, if you're trying to collaborate internally and

Justin:

you have a beta and nobody else does,

Jem:

everyone else is on rhino five, so they stuffed anyway.

Jem:

It's all good.

Justin:

Jem's just making files.

Justin:

Nobody can use, I do that all the time on accident.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah, but it's fun.

Jem:

And, and, you know, biggest highlight, I think I shared with

Jem:

you on the slack was just getting access to that Numi calculator app.

Jem:

I love it so much fun.

Justin:

It's very new.

Justin:

It's like the perfect kind of nerdy that we like.

Justin:

It's just a little clean calculator with kind of some, natural language

Justin:

kind of almost where you can

Justin:

like kind of process stuff line by line.

Justin:

But it's just, I have all these files that I come back to that over time.

Justin:

Like they used to calculate the phone bill between my family members every month.

Justin:

And you just put in a couple of things, knowing, calculate it out.

Justin:

It's basically a little spreadsheet, but it can be on any Mac it's faster

Justin:

than that to access, I think often.

Justin:

And it just looks better too.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

And I think that's fine.

Jem:

I don't think I'm the computer is just the battery.

Jem:

Life is stupid.

Jem:

Good.

Justin:

That's true.

Jem:

Coming from two hours max on the thing pad to seemingly

Jem:

limitless battery life on this.

Jem:

It's amazing.

Jem:

So it's sitting and sitting on the couch last night with light room open,

Jem:

just like trolling 8,000 photos for the website and you know, two hours

Jem:

later they'd use 20% or something.

Jem:

It's amazing.

Justin:

And I've definitely noticed too, that the same thing applies for

Justin:

anything that's native versus non native apps will suck more power because that

Justin:

like conversion, Rosetta thing seems to eat like fusion is a battery hug.

Justin:

So,

Jem:

interesting.

Jem:

Okay, good.

Justin:

it's still really good.

Justin:

You still get a lot out of it.

Justin:

So, Yeah.

Justin:

I'm happy with myself.

Jem:

Awesome.

Jem:

Good.

Jem:

How's your week?

Jem:

What's happening?

Justin:

I've been printing like a madman I've got last time we

Justin:

were live printing this one,

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

which we call baby pants.

Jem:

baby pants appropriately.

Justin:

that was like the first print I'd ever done.

Justin:

I've probably done like 15 versions in digital model farm of our dust boot kind

Justin:

of, I'm just trying to make it work and seeking through the concepts of like

Justin:

how, if you had two and they came to one, like two, four inches came down

Justin:

to one thing in the bottom or just all these different versions over, you know,

Justin:

I said like, basically you're so, and so this one turned out pretty good and

Justin:

we liked how it kind of fed it in some plywood testing and we mounted it up

Justin:

to the spindle and it was mostly good.

Justin:

And I immediately noticed like, oh, this is going to suck to keep attached.

Justin:

Cause it was just basically like floating in there.

Justin:

And I was like maybe a bunch of glue.

Justin:

And I was like, that's a bad idea.

Justin:

That's a bad idea.

Justin:

Quickly chatted through and I added a few screw downs and kind of see like faces.

Justin:

No.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

And

Jem:

Hold down points.

Jem:

Yep.

Justin:

little bit more of like but I guess on the backside that

Justin:

sits on the plate and a little bit

Jem:

Let's go.

Justin:

but I think we may be able to finish the plates out of a Siedel

Justin:

and then actually mounted up today.

Justin:

That's been super exciting big improvement for us.

Justin:

And then a lot of people seem to be interested in potentially having one

Justin:

as well, which I'm excited about.

Justin:

And

Jem:

Myself

Justin:

yeah, I'm

Justin:

curious about that.

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

So you have modeled how many versions of that before printing one?

Justin:

Well, you know how you do like versioning and fusion oil?

Justin:

It's like, I've gone through like six different files with major idea changes

Jem:

such restraint.

Jem:

I don't know how you do it.

Jem:

Like how do you not just print the first one?

Justin:

Well, we didn't have a printer for like the first four versions of that.

Justin:

So it was just kind of, that actually helped speed it up because then I knew

Justin:

what I could print a little bit better.

Justin:

Also that we could even print it.

Justin:

Like it was kind of a, I was going to outsource that and like probably some

Justin:

commercial, you know, crazy printer.

Justin:

So

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

that helped a lot.

Justin:

And and it just was easy, similar to probably how you were using yours.

Justin:

It's just easy to kind of ignore.

Justin:

Like it works, ours works.

Justin:

Okay.

Justin:

People sweep it up and you just get you're annoyed by it, but it's like,

Justin:

well, it's not stopping us from working.

Justin:

And I got to take the machine apart to fix it, you know, like I'm working on it.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Alice has got these silly little pneumatic push downs on the pressure foot.

Jem:

And John had a little bump, you know, minor crash the other day.

Jem:

And so both of the pneumatic arms are now bent, so they don't even retract out.

Jem:

So the thing's just useless.

Jem:

That's a stuck.

Justin:

it does like a little kick move every time it comes down.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

That, and been kind of cranking on, planning for like a video shoot of

Justin:

our Nack wall stuff beginning of June.

Justin:

And so for he's cutting more parts right now or getting them finished and

Justin:

trying to get it all prepped so that we can do more than just talk about it.

Jem:

Fantastic.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Good one.

Jem:

Whether you shoot that.

Justin:

I have a friend that's going to be nearby actually, and he's going to come.

Jem:

Fantastic.

Jem:

Awesome.

Jem:

What do you shoot on when you're not just doing handheld?

Justin:

I have a Sony a three S a three, a three alpha three.

Justin:

I just got that like last year.

Justin:

So I haven't used it all that much, but like it a lot and very crisp,

Justin:

like compared to I had a, kind of a more entry Sony mirrorless and it,

Justin:

it definitely improves upon a lot of the things that I liked about that.

Justin:

How

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Had a Canon 7D

Justin:

Hm.

Jem:

for about 12 years and had a nice piece of glass on the front of it.

Jem:

That was worth a lot more than the camera buddy.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

And I was doing a photo shoot maybe 18 months ago at work and

Jem:

I just hit the tripod release and I didn't catch the camera.

Jem:

I was just kind of on autopilot.

Jem:

I just took the camera off and the whole thing just went and fell to

Jem:

the concrete body was fine, but the lens literally snapped in half.

Jem:

And thankfully it was insured

Jem:

and the insurance payout got me a new Fuji XT4 for,

Justin:

nice.

Jem:

And I'd never had a sort of small whatever they called mirrorless

Jem:

camera before, but I'm so impressed with the sharpness, like going through

Jem:

shots last night, you can see the point very, very clearly say the

Jem:

point at which the cameras switched.

Jem:

And it's like, it goes from kind of soft edges on the Canon to

Jem:

suddenly like everything's just ultra crisp and sharp and on the Fuji.

Jem:

So I've been very happy with that.

Justin:

Yeah, I have a similar experience.

Justin:

The thing that I have noticed video was more than anything I was, you know, I had

Justin:

the first one since 2019, the mirrorless is 4k and I would never shoot for a cake.

Justin:

So it was just like, most people aren't using that on the internet.

Justin:

Like, you know, using it as a format it's giant, it's hard to edit with.

Justin:

And like with the improvement of computers and storage and all this stuff

Justin:

now, I'm like, I'm always shooting for a K and it's so much better quality.

Justin:

Like even when you edit it down to 10 80, that I kind of wish

Justin:

I had done it a long time ago.

Jem:

It's amazing that the file size is disgusting.

Justin:

Yeah, for sure.

Justin:

I mean, we were talking about this, I think offline, but like,

Justin:

it's one of the few things that I don't really like put into cloud.

Justin:

I just have backups here and then I do like a.

Justin:

Back please backup of that.

Jem:

Okay.

Jem:

So you've just got external drives that you deal with video on.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I just kind of keep everything

Jem:

that's cool.

Justin:

yeah.

Justin:

A

Jem:

I need, I need to do that.

Jem:

I've been procrastinating from buying an external hard drive fee years.

Justin:

That was honestly a big change.

Justin:

Cause I just, like, I think I realized that an eight gig or eight terabyte

Justin:

external was like 180 bucks or something.

Justin:

And I was like, oh my word, like, I can store so much video on this.

Jem:

yeah, I just need to do that by the bullet.

Jem:

Cause I, I literally don't shoot in 4k or I shoot less 4k because I'm

Jem:

just bored by the file storage issue.

Justin:

no, no, I totally agree.

Justin:

And that was, that was a big restraint for me.

Justin:

And I was always like, oh, that's stupid.

Justin:

Like I don't need that.

Justin:

And then I literally have a tick tock tick tock video I've made, I shot in 4k.

Justin:

I edited it down, even on Tik TOK, I constantly get comments

Justin:

about how good the quality is.

Justin:

It's just because of shooting that way and then not, you know,

Justin:

enlarging it or anything like that.

Justin:

So,

Jem:

Nice.

Justin:

yeah, I wish I'd spend more time shooting, honestly.

Jem:

Yeah, me too.

Jem:

On that.

Jem:

Shooting all day today, hopefully

Justin:

Whoo.

Justin:

What are you?

Justin:

What is it?

Jem:

most rare occasion.

Jem:

I've carved out hopefully 90% of today for dedicated shooting time.

Jem:

I've got a friend coming.

Jem:

We'd kind of, we'd been wanting to do this throughout various COVID lockdowns

Jem:

and it never quite made it happen.

Jem:

And we finally sort of clear of

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

of that nonsense.

Jem:

And so he's coming for the day and he'll get here about 10 o'clock and

Jem:

we'll spend the rest of the day shooting content for the website and shooting

Jem:

new products, try and get some video, a bunch of stills, just spend time working

Jem:

together, setting up shots basically.

Jem:

And hopefully not get too bogged down because in the past, when

Jem:

I've tried to do stuff like that, I sort of set up one shot.

Jem:

And by then, you know, a few hours later, I'm like, cool, I'm done.

Jem:

I can't be bothered, packing this up and making another sane now that'll do.

Justin:

Yeah, that's really interesting how we're doing that at the same

Justin:

time, because I'm trying to plan out.

Justin:

Kind of a meeting yesterday about, I was getting bogged down mentally,

Justin:

just trying to process, like, what are we trying to accomplish with

Justin:

doing this little video shoot?

Justin:

I mean, that, it's a new thing is challenging for me to, I'm trying to

Justin:

like formulate what the angles are and like pitching this to people, right?

Justin:

Like what, what, what are the features and benefits, but I guess

Justin:

the question I have all that is how do you plan video or photo shoots?

Justin:

Do you have like a system or you just write a WorkFlowy?

Jem:

Planning.

Jem:

I don't think I've ever planned a photoshoot.

Jem:

I no, I just wing it.

Jem:

I totally just wing it.

Jem:

And even if I have.

Jem:

Pretended to have gone into it with a bit of a plan or a sketch or something.

Jem:

It typically gets thrown in the bin pretty quickly.

Jem:

And I just kind of let, let the dust, the process kind of lead me.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

I, as with most things I make, I think I'm similar with photos.

Jem:

I just sort of do it fairly intuitively and just follow my knives and see

Jem:

what looks good and what looks crap.

Jem:

And don't, you know, cause I find if I'm too set on an idea and I'll try

Jem:

and achieve that idea and I like, it's not working out, then I get frustrated.

Jem:

Whereas if I don't have a fixed plan, I'll just follow my nose which is fine

Jem:

if you're just trying to get some shots.

Jem:

But if you're trying to communicate something, that's a very different story.

Jem:

And I think that's where I fall down in my product, photography

Jem:

and communication online.

Jem:

I'm not really focusing on what am I actually trying to communicate to

Jem:

our customers in the most effective, efficient way, and then shoot for that.

Jem:

That that's hard.

Justin:

Yeah, no, I totally agree.

Justin:

So I, the last one I did was the whiteboard and it was just like at my

Justin:

house, which is usually the easiest, cause this isn't a very aesthetic space

Justin:

here and not that my house is, but it just has a blank wall that worked.

Justin:

And I found that to be so much easier to just set up and like take some photos.

Justin:

I keep thinking about is make sure videos to make into content

Justin:

as well as usable on the website.

Justin:

I can shoot photos all day of these things.

Justin:

They're not that complicated The other thing is I can render this so well, like

Justin:

not, not that my skills are so good, but it's just, so it's all infusion.

Justin:

So I just have seen set up or if I want a combination of things,

Justin:

I can just quickly render that.

Justin:

I'm trying to prioritize, it seems like there needs to be some story because I

Justin:

don't immediately think people are gonna see this Nack Wall and go, oh yeah.

Justin:

Like I can put that in my space or something like kind of has to

Justin:

be, they need a scale reference.

Justin:

They need, I don't know.

Justin:

You know what I mean?

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Narrative story, all those, all those things that are so much harder than just

Jem:

picking up a camera or putting it in.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

and take so much more time and planning and critical thinking.

Jem:

Yeah, totally get you.

Jem:

So I you know, I'm still a hundred and no, I'm still like I'm still

Jem:

working on Annie Shopify theme build the last night on the couch.

Jem:

You know, I think I was secretly waiting for these computer to arrive before

Jem:

I like spent time editing photos.

Jem:

Cause I wanted this screen

Justin:

it's really good.

Justin:

Quality.

Jem:

So I was sitting on the couch and I'd lie to Dean the last, you know, 10,

Jem:

15 years of photography into Lightroom.

Jem:

And I just scroll, scroll, scroll.

Jem:

That's not, so that's not SEO.

Jem:

I'll use that for this banner.

Jem:

Just picking out random stuff like from this huge library of photos that

Jem:

creates quite a nice look and you know, the website's looking really

Jem:

nice, but there's new banners, but it's not, it's not intentional.

Jem:

It's kind of just opportunistic.

Jem:

It's not communicating.

Jem:

To a point.

Jem:

I can communicate an idea by my photo selection, but I'm not yeah.

Jem:

Building something from scratch to really clearly say why this product

Jem:

is good or, you know, so yeah.

Jem:

Don't know I've got no answers for

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Well, do you ever have this thing where you, like you work in a product

Justin:

or a project so long that you kind of lose an outward sense of it

Jem:

totally.

Justin:

where it's like, isn't it just obvious, like I'll show my wife something

Justin:

I'm working on and she's a designer and she'll just go with, it makes no sense

Justin:

with the rest of what you're working on.

Justin:

I'm like, okay.

Justin:

Like, I guess I was just making a cool thing and I forgot about like, oh, it

Justin:

has to work with these other objects.

Justin:

Yeah, totally.

Justin:

And even if it is a cool thing, It's hard to have that external sense

Justin:

of how someone else may view it how someone else may want to use it.

Justin:

And that's why you need to get your Nack Wall out into the world.

Justin:

Yes.

Justin:

Yes, I totally agree.

Jem:

I had a brilliant email the other day from a customer because Jay, I've

Jem:

been talking about this idea of how to we've got this dream for Kitta parts

Jem:

of having an online configurator.

Jem:

So our customer can I drag and drop components almost like a game and build

Jem:

their own set and, you know, click order and this fantastic email the

Jem:

other day from a customer who wanted a custom kit of parts and using masking

Jem:

tape on their wall that like taped.

Jem:

They've made all the components out of masking tape and like taped it

Jem:

up at full-scale on their wall and written like short shelf, short down,

Jem:

Lawndale labeled it all photographed.

Jem:

It, sent it through as like, this is perfect.

Jem:

Like, this is exactly the tool we want to make, but in digital form

Jem:

so calling on old developers out there who can help us with that,

Jem:

cause we haven't found anyone yet.

Justin:

I would love that.

Justin:

That would be so cool.

Justin:

It, a lot of the technology seems like it's now there with, I mean, every

Justin:

iPhone that's come out in the last few years can do augmented reality

Justin:

and like is that the right phrase?

Justin:

You can then basically project the idea of a 3d object into the camera

Jem:

yeah.

Justin:

fun.

Jem:

Yup.

Justin:

And even Shopify supports it right now.

Justin:

So you can export from fusion, this little file, and then people can do that.

Justin:

But the problem is we're both probably running in the same thing.

Justin:

They're not configured scenes, they're an object,

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

not six things.

Justin:

It's.

Justin:

But you could potentially, and this idea, right.

Justin:

If you did or could configure it quickly enough for them that it made sense, maybe

Justin:

your rhino scenes are quick to assemble.

Justin:

You could then send them, send them a file and they can then

Justin:

project it onto their space.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

And that's how I do it in rhino.

Jem:

I've got so I find that's the fastest way to do it.

Jem:

I've got blocks of the components and then I've got some smart text

Jem:

blocks that count the blocks.

Jem:

And so I can lay out the configurations and then I've got a little tally

Jem:

down the side that tells me how many components I've used

Justin:

oh, cool.

Justin:

I don't know about

Jem:

going ahead.

Jem:

It, yeah, I'll show you in rhino.

Jem:

It's a really neat little trick.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah, and that's quite fast and you know, it's nice being

Jem:

able to design a set for someone, but just be, there'd be so good.

Jem:

The customers to be able to configure their own stuff.

Justin:

I've definitely been kind of bashing my head against the wall a few

Justin:

times with we're trying to make kids have the Nack wall, but it's like pretty

Justin:

tough to predict things for people in a predetermined, what somebody might

Justin:

want and then make it, so it works.

Justin:

But the alternative is how do they, how in the most basic sense, it's

Justin:

like, if we don't show them something that's pre set up, then they have to

Justin:

kind of arrange it and make it fit mentally, basically, because we don't

Justin:

have a better, you have something,

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

No, I'm just

Jem:

agreeing with you Yeah,

Justin:

were shaking your head.

Justin:

Like, no, I have a thing.

Justin:

And I was like, oh, tell me no,

Jem:

no, no, no.

Justin:

It's so the kit seems obvious to me is at least as

Justin:

small, basic building blocks.

Justin:

And then you have this much extra space to play with.

Jem:

Yeah, I think that's essential because while you being so familiar

Jem:

with the product may be able to mentally 3d model that configuration

Jem:

in your mind the customer in our experience with stuff like that, kids

Jem:

sell much, better, much, much better

Jem:

because giving, just giving everyone individual components as options, unless

Jem:

they've already bought a kit of parts and they're familiar with the system,

Jem:

then they might be confident to buy a few parts and make another little thing.

Jem:

But that, kit at the outset, I think, is essential for anything

Jem:

like that, which is kind of system

Jem:

based.

Jem:

And again, I would push you to not sort of labor over it too

Jem:

long in terms of what the perfect configuration is, and just like throw

Jem:

a kit together and get it out there.

Jem:

Cause you'll get feedback whether it's direct feedback

Jem:

or whether it's people then by.

Jem:

The bit that they feel is missing.

Jem:

And if you see a pattern there, then you can update your kit

Justin:

Yeah, that's good.

Justin:

Good advice.

Jem:

though, because then you end up with so many variants in Shopify

Jem:

and then trying to manage all those variants and update them, keep them,

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

Fun, fun.

Justin:

nerdy for a second.

Justin:

I, I think Saunders was talking about this, like bundling or

Justin:

kidding plugin a long time ago.

Justin:

I asked him about it and I don't remember.

Justin:

He either sent me it or I found a different version.

Justin:

It lets you take one product period and then that's a bundle

Justin:

and then you can like attach other things to it, to create these

Jem:

Cool.

Justin:

pre bundled things.

Justin:

And then the benefit of that is when us, as the sellers gotta fulfill

Justin:

that, it's not just like, version a.

Justin:

Or product day bundle.

Justin:

It literally pulls all those names into, of each assembled item.

Justin:

Sub-areas kind of thing, and also takes down the inventory

Justin:

of those things it gets bought.

Justin:

So you, you actually keep track of it because that's a nightmare I've found

Justin:

with even small other kits of like planners and things is when one thing is

Justin:

in for other products, it doesn't really track like, oh, we have 16 of these.

Justin:

That's just like one says 16, one says 15.

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

there's a lot.

Jem:

I need to look into that sort of bundling stuff as well.

Jem:

We've, we've never bothered, bothered tracking inventory.

Jem:

I find it too complex to keep on top of.

Jem:

And then for it to be accurate, you have to, I think the, the Johns have talked

Jem:

about this, but like, do you track it, do you spend the time tracking it or do you

Jem:

just have like a Kanban level that when you hit that it just triggers production

Jem:

and we've always done the latter,

Jem:

and just, if we're running out of something, then we'll make more, but

Jem:

don't try and sort of keep up with exactly how many things we have on the shelf.

Justin:

I started out not knowing what the hell I was doing right with that stuff.

Justin:

And I bought some

Jem:

Um,

Justin:

fives eight years ago that I was trying to track

Justin:

everything, every screw that was me.

Justin:

And I was so stressed out about the, all the time.

Justin:

It's always breaking.

Justin:

It was like another level of trying to be an accountant, but I never

Justin:

wanted to be in the first place.

Justin:

And finally, I think, I don't know what it was.

Justin:

It was like podcast or something.

Justin:

I was just like, screw that.

Justin:

And I like jettisoned all that off and it just felt so good.

Justin:

I think some of

Jem:

Screw those screws.

Justin:

I think so maybe it was Saunders just saying like, well, we don't do that.

Justin:

You know, like I don't either have to track every everyone or you

Justin:

use some kind of leveling system.

Justin:

And after that, it's just been so nice to not worry about that.

Justin:

the other thing is we're both luckily in a non-emergency

Justin:

based product world, right?

Justin:

Like nobody absolutely needs fixturing to make their next part it's oh no.

Justin:

My Kitta parts isn't here.

Justin:

I can't put my shelves up.

Jem:

those high expectations in the furniture game, Justin, you know this,

Justin:

We talked about this last time though.

Jem:

I simply must.

Jem:

Yeah, no, it makes sense.

Justin:

That's how you're working on coffee table.

Justin:

That looks interesting.

Justin:

Long's that been in the press?

Jem:

John.

Jem:

And I sat down yesterday and counted how many new products

Jem:

we're sitting on yesterday?

Jem:

I think we're up to nine.

Jem:

Just, we've got a list going in their table.

Jem:

And we're trying on the planning note, we're actually trying to plan product

Jem:

launches for the first time ever.

Jem:

Instead of me just like randomly dropping stuff on Instagram overnight

Jem:

and saying, Hey, your product.

Jem:

And then everyone else in the business going off jam, done it again.

Jem:

Like now we have to catch up and do all the, you know,

Justin:

yes.

Jem:

the, get the instructions made, get it into Shopify, do the pricing.

Jem:

But we're trying to do all of that stuff.

Jem:

Pre launch, which has really slowed down now.

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

Output time towing.

Jem:

I love dropping new stuff overnight and just go cool deal with it.

Jem:

We'll work it out.

Jem:

Let's just sell some things and see what happens.

Jem:

But I guess we built such a machine now in the business and in air

Jem:

table that we kind of have to be a bit more organized, but yeah, lots

Jem:

of new product, which is exciting.

Jem:

And a lot of it from staff , the staff royalty program is working really nicely.

Jem:

There's a great energy at the moment.

Jem:

And people have got some cool things coming through quite a couple of

Jem:

quite ambitious ideas, which is great.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Hmm, cool.

Justin:

That's exciting.

Justin:

Is that coffee table, a kitta parts system or is it just a separate thing?

Jem:

It's a separate thing.

Jem:

Just using the threading IP.

Jem:

We've kinda sort of been trying to sort of double down on being aware of.

Jem:

All the IP we're sitting on and all the time that we've spent developing

Jem:

that and trying to capitalize on it a bit more, expand it, you know,

Jem:

different ways we could use that.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Cause I, I have this thing, I'm aware that, you know, every man and his dog

Jem:

has got a three axis machine these days

Justin:

Yes.

Jem:

and, you know, friend or friend of mine who has, you know, almost

Jem:

no manufacturing experience has just bought, you know, big full-size

Jem:

three access to put in his shed.

Jem:

And so like it's becoming so common that I'm aware that we need to,

Jem:

you know, stay ahead in some sense.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I've thought about that

Jem:

and, and whether that's, you know, investing in a five-axis

Jem:

machine down the track or.

Jem:

What we're doing at the moment where we've built a custom machine that does

Jem:

a very specific thing, and then just sort of investing in that technology

Jem:

that we've made for ourselves.

Jem:

I don't know.

Jem:

What do you think about

Jem:

that whole thing,

Justin:

The more I've been around cam, especially fusion, when you talk about

Justin:

its progress and like adaptive, clearing kind of things, or if you've ever played

Justin:

with Steep and Shallow that my thought for the last year or so is the skills

Justin:

that we have created for ourselves in programming and running CNC machines

Justin:

are going to become nearly automatic.

Justin:

We already have these tools that do the quoting.

Justin:

So they only have to start applying the actual tool.

Justin:

Here's a tool, here's how it would access it.

Justin:

I think in the end, what we're going to end up is like machinists or Cam

Justin:

programmers will basically be like checking to make sure it all worked

Justin:

right before it goes out to the machine.

Justin:

Similar to what you're saying, it's like a CNC could very well turn

Justin:

into like a router can turn into basically what all laser cutter is.

Justin:

You know, there's a lot of nuance there.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

But yeah, it's going to become less special, I think for sure.

Justin:

It already had in the time I've been doing it, it's become significantly less.

Justin:

The barrier to entry is lower.

Justin:

There's a new think it's U S made CNC router maker.

Justin:

That's selling theirs for like $8,000 for like the same size of machine that I have.

Justin:

And I'm like, what?

Justin:

How's that even possible?

Justin:

Like, yeah.

Justin:

I think it's the bearers lowering.

Jem:

Do you have a sense of how you'll combat that?

Justin:

No.

Justin:

I mean, my strategy to all of this, I had this idea of back in school, was that

Justin:

there was some level of sustainability for myself or business by having a

Justin:

scattershot approach of everything from education to consulting, you know, like

Justin:

a job shop stuff to product design.

Justin:

And that hopefully one of those at all times I could keep

Justin:

juggling to the right place.

Justin:

I definitely, in the last, let's say year, eight months, six months have felt

Justin:

like I've maybe pushed that too far.

Justin:

And I'm trying to like come back to what's the right thing to be working on instead

Justin:

of trying to juggle all these things at the same time, don't know if I'm doing

Justin:

a good job at it, but how about you?

Jem:

uh, Look, my solution to that question has always been the ahead

Jem:

in investment in machines, but I'm not a hundred percent anymore.

Jem:

That that's the right answer.

Jem:

I think Is a discovery process of building commissioning and running.

Jem:

The pencil sharpener has sort of led me down much more sort of nature route.

Jem:

And so rather than going goal, if we want to stay ahead, we need to

Jem:

invest 350 K in a five axis machine.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

I mean, I'd still love to do that.

Jem:

That my thinking now is more like, we're sitting on so much sort of design IP,

Jem:

and there's so much power in building a custom machine, potentially also

Jem:

building low costs, single purpose machines that can make certain processes

Jem:

really efficient in order to support a product line that is unique, I think.

Jem:

Yeah, that that's kind of our approach at the moment and where my head's at.

Jem:

as with all these things, it's my thinking tends to be very

Jem:

fluid and changes week to week.

Jem:

But

Justin:

same.

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

But I do love my robots.

Jem:

So, you know, any excuse.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I think last few of Saunders, his tours have pushed my thinking quite

Justin:

a bit beyond what I normally thought about in terms of like automation type

Justin:

things with I've seen any of those.

Justin:

I forget the names of them at the moment, but there's been a couple of good ones.

Justin:

The metal quest one was quite a while ago actually, but that was pretty shocking.

Justin:

Just the levels they go to, to do one sided setups of crazy tools

Justin:

that go in and backside chamfer backtrack machine from one setup.

Justin:

Those kinds of things, I used to live in Nebraska is where they're from.

Justin:

This is interesting to me see such high level of technology thinking and just

Justin:

progressiveness in that kind of machining level that allows them to compete

Justin:

with, like they were saying like Asia basically, and keep stuff here versus,

Justin:

I mean, I ran into that all the time.

Justin:

It's like, we're not competitive with Asia in any sense.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

recently ask us for our quote for a set of parts that would be tough to

Justin:

make they're all 3d machines, small parts.

Justin:

They were getting the made 30 times cheaper than what we could possibly do it.

Justin:

And I was like, I don't know, man.

Justin:

We pay a good wage.

Justin:

I don't know.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah, yeah, I mean the, and that example that you gave a metal quest is a good

Jem:

example of what, you know, how far you can push a simple machine to, like, you

Jem:

don't necessarily need the big, expensive machine to be innovative and be ahead,

Jem:

you can continue to push a simple machine harder and harder and get

Jem:

more and more squeeze out of it, I suppose, to stay competitive and ahead.

Jem:

So yeah, it doesn't have to mean investment.

Jem:

That can be internal investment, I suppose, in terms of your processes and

Jem:

thinking and innovating within that,

Justin:

yeah, for sure.

Jem:

that's something we've sort of chatted about for awhile as a business

Jem:

is where we're growing, but we're growing internally with the resources we have,

Justin:

Tell me more.

Jem:

You know, you've got a set of tools, you've got a space and

Jem:

we've got a team or very capable.

Jem:

We don't have to add more people.

Jem:

We don't have to add more machines.

Jem:

We're not going to build another shed.

Jem:

Let's grow within the resources that we have and maximize now output,

Jem:

I suppose, out of those tools and

Jem:

resources that we have.

Jem:

So we could grow quite a lot.

Jem:

Like we're aiming to sort of double our revenue over the next

Jem:

12 to 18 And that's none of that should involve more people or more

Jem:

equipment.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

That's all just internal.

Jem:

You know, we might hit a point where like the Sprite base can't cope anymore.

Jem:

We need to upgrade it or we need another spray booth or like we might

Jem:

run into things like that along the way that we can't sort of plan for.

Jem:

That internal growth thing is something that we seems quite feasible.

Jem:

And we've been chasing that for a couple of years.

Justin:

Interesting.

Justin:

So do you have proof of it working already?

Jem:

Yeah,

Jem:

Yeah,

Jem:

Yeah,

Jem:

For shell.

Justin:

Very cool.

Jem:

And I think part of that is simplifying as well.

Jem:

Not trying to be everything to everyone, which is something I've always tried

Jem:

to be like, yeah, I've always been the yes, man of like, yeah, we'll try that.

Jem:

We'll help you.

Jem:

And that's how, that's how we've grown the business.

Jem:

And that's part of my identity.

Jem:

So it's been a hard thing to try and shift, but I can see the potential in.

Jem:

The more stuff we say no to, and start to shut down.

Jem:

The more opportunities I can see opening up in the areas that

Jem:

we actually want to working in.

Jem:

So

Justin:

Cool.

Jem:

it's tricky,

Jem:

but,

Justin:

I've felt like this for years and it's frustrating that we're always

Justin:

like right on the edge of growth, like that, that have more and more all the

Justin:

time, the equipment, the people, the resources to do those kinds of things.

Justin:

And then the only thing I can blame at this point is myself, honestly,

Justin:

for like why it hasn't happened.

Justin:

But it always feels right around the corner.

Justin:

Like there's so much more capacity.

Justin:

so much more capacity than what we're pushing through at the

Justin:

moment, like product, or like I was talking about before.

Justin:

So we have products that don't don't sell or aren't scaling.

Justin:

Like we want them to, and we can make a lot more of all of it.

Justin:

Right.

Justin:

And it's just not selling as if, as we'd like to.

Justin:

So that's still high on my list it's basically necessary for

Justin:

like the Nack wall to work.

Justin:

You gotta be able to start selling it in a way that isn't just me, hopefully

Justin:

posting on Instagram or Facebook marketing or something, you know?

Justin:

So that's a big, big effort of mine lately.

Jem:

yeah, it's tricky.

Jem:

Huh?

Jem:

I'll share a simple question that my business coach asked me the

Jem:

other day after I shared some of our business goals, you know, and he,

Jem:

his simple question to me was, you know, that's great, but how are you

Jem:

currently getting in the way of this?

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Cause it comes down to us at the end of the day where the business owners, it's

Jem:

all our fault, it's all our problem.

Jem:

And we're the ones that get in the way whatever it is we're trying to do.

Jem:

I like that.

Jem:

How are you currently getting in the way of this result?

Jem:

I've got a paste it up and trying to sort of come back to that.

Jem:

Think about it.

Justin:

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm highly aware that that's probably largely great at

Justin:

starting things, but it's not always my forte to continue or to push them beyond

Justin:

maybe the beginning phase sometimes.

Justin:

And so, or I'll just get bored of stuff, honestly.

Justin:

yeah, so that, that's the part that I haven't figured out how to add

Justin:

somebody else to the mix or something that helps push that beyond it.

Justin:

I think that's, that's pretty critical for me.

Justin:

Anyway, if I had to guess

Justin:

you need a business coach

Jem:

yeah, yeah, no, I'm the same.

Jem:

Like I start everything and get excited about everything, but actually

Jem:

execute, executing and completing is the heartbeat official having

Jem:

feeling accountable to your team.

Jem:

I find a really valuable tool, like setting up any sort of little

Jem:

accountability loop within the business where you've told even, or external

Jem:

to the business of like having someone that you chat to about your intentions

Jem:

and I'm in leaving this like re listing or editing episodes of this.

Jem:

I hear what I've said and I'm like, that's right.

Justin:

I got to do

Jem:

I had made a statement, you know, I said something and then

Jem:

I, now I need to deliver on that.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

I think, yeah, accountability is a big one for me to

Jem:

actually get anything done.

Jem:

Then I need to deadline and I need to feel accountable to someone else.

Jem:

And then I'll get it done

Jem:

if there's no deadline.

Jem:

I'm stuffed.

Justin:

the deadlines are killer for me.

Justin:

Cause it's like, but you know, you set your own deadline and then what it

Justin:

just comes and goes because somebody wanted a quote, you know, like, yeah,

Justin:

I haven't been doing well at that.

Justin:

I was gonna say, oh, speaking of accountability then I guess

Justin:

we'll just, we'll start now.

Justin:

How have you started changing your Kitta parts, sizes, dimensions?

Jem:

Nope.

Jem:

I have not

Justin:

What's the first thing you gotta do there?

Jem:

first steps.

Jem:

I like it.

Jem:

I'm asking the hard questions.

Justin:

I just cut it off before you can ask me about what mine.

Jem:

Yeah, I think I've gone the opposite direction.

Jem:

Even chatting to John yesterday about new products.

Jem:

He was saying he'd taken some offcuts or not ask guts some

Jem:

seconds, like a blemished kid apart stuff, home to make a little shelf.

Jem:

And he'd made kind of a half size, one of the normal, the normal regular set.

Jem:

And he was like, Jem I think we should offer like a half size set.

Jem:

Cause it'd be a better price point.

Jem:

And

Jem:

I thought, yeah,

Jem:

cool.

Jem:

Would be great idea.

Justin:

sure.

Jem:

Let's let's do that in the photo shoot tomorrow and like

Jem:

just put a house size together.

Jem:

And then that means there's now another kid of pots out in the world.

Jem:

If we bring that online,

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

make making excuses.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

That's definitely the easier method to continue with the

Justin:

thing that's already doing.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

I had a customer out during the week.

Jem:

Who's really keen.

Jem:

On a Kitta parts that can take vinyl records.

Jem:

And that's one of the key critical dimensions.

Jem:

The new system will include is the ability to store vinyl natively, which the current

Jem:

one can't but not high shelf spacing.

Jem:

So I think first step is to do a couple of custom orders for vinyl configurations

Jem:

and maybe collaborate with a customer.

Jem:

Who's got a really nice set up or nice like audio gear and say, we'll

Jem:

make you this beautiful thing, maybe at a discount or something in exchange

Jem:

for a photo shoot at the other end.

Jem:

So we can get a shot of it with your, you know, a beautiful 10

Jem:

tables and amplifier and all the stuff that's really hard to do.

Justin:

It's a good, a

Jem:

When you don't have any of that stuff.

Justin:

That's been one of the hardest things I've been trying to work through

Justin:

with Nashville is like literally got to attach it to a wall, to take photos of it.

Justin:

And most people don't want holes in their wall after the fact.

Justin:

So I thought, okay, I'll give it to them, but then they want it.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

I don't have any friends that like this works out with.

Justin:

So that's a good idea.

Jem:

yeah,

Justin:

Hmm.

Justin:

Now so when you're changing this, is it a programming thing?

Justin:

Cause I, I would imagine your design capability.

Justin:

This is a fast change, but it's more of a decision-making and then execution

Justin:

of changing the production files,

Jem:

To be honest, the production side of things would be so quick.

Jem:

Cause I haven't.

Jem:

Yup.

Jem:

Shopify updating all the digital assets I think would be the slowest.

Justin:

Air power, man.

Jem:

Oh, yeah, pat was there, but you still got to populate it all.

Justin:

Yeah

Jem:

that excuses, the biggest hurdle for me is just making that

Jem:

decision on the new dimensions and

Jem:

committing to it.

Justin:

yeah

Jem:

so if I start with a couple of custom jobs, that'll help me move me along.

Justin:

yeah.

Jem:

Cause I feel more accountable to my customers than I do to my own deadlines.

Jem:

And so things will happen.

Justin:

That's true.

Justin:

Huh.

Justin:

Cool.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I mean, even if you're just I think we talked about this, there's a company here.

Justin:

They came up with this phrase that I had an email it's called a render

Justin:

type and they just make renderings and then throw them out there

Jem:

Uh, what

Justin:

render.

Justin:

type.

Justin:

R E N D E R T Y P

Justin:

E.

Justin:

So that's the idea that like you just make a rendering and not the real thing,

Jem:

Oh like PR PR

Justin:

See if it's at, see if it's interesting.

Justin:

It gets enough reaction instead of investing more time into it.

Justin:

If it gets no reaction or you can do pre-orders theoretically, but you could

Justin:

maybe like you're saying, make your digital version, throw it out there.

Justin:

See if you get new takes.

Jem:

I've done this.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I'm

Jem:

done.

Jem:

The challenge with that is capturing that, you know, did this exact thing

Jem:

with the vinyl specific killer parts last year, it was one of the most

Jem:

popular posts I put on Instagram ever.

Justin:

Oh

Jem:

And I, and I did nothing with it.

Jem:

Like it was capture that's.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

I find that really hard to then go.

Jem:

Cool.

Jem:

Lots of people engage with that.

Jem:

Lots of people want that right now.

Jem:

What's the next step.

Jem:

And I didn't, I didn't

Justin:

Yeah, it's easy to get lost in the other things.

Jem:

Well,

Justin:

I mean, the first time we ever showed the Nack wall publicly

Justin:

really we'd spent months working on it.

Justin:

We went to this local makers market thing for the holidays,

Justin:

and I did just a time-lapse on my phone, set it up across the space.

Justin:

and we just basically were setting it up on this little display,

Justin:

rearranging stuff to make it look good.

Justin:

It's one of the most popular posts I've made.

Justin:

It was literally, I was trying to catch people in the local area.

Justin:

Hey, come check us out at the maker's market.

Justin:

I'm like our CNC page, not the Nack one add like crazy.

Justin:

All over.

Justin:

And I was like, oh, okay, well, that's really encouraging.

Justin:

I don't think it got anybody to go to the market, which didn't really matter.

Justin:

But same thing.

Justin:

Right.

Justin:

It's it had huge engagement.

Justin:

It's not that that's like made me get it out to sale faster,

Justin:

but it made me feel good.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

You probably thought of this kind of thing too, I like to try to capture

Justin:

people's interests whenever possible, off of social media with like I've

Justin:

been using air table farms quite a bit.

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

if you're interested in this thing, sign up on the form and

Justin:

the, you know, link in bio and that way you have an email or something

Justin:

to follow up with a phone number.

Justin:

if

Jem:

yeah,

Justin:

farther with it,

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

That's a good idea.

Jem:

We have done that with one new product that we've kind of got

Jem:

listed as presale and that's good.

Jem:

It'll be interesting to see when we finally get it.

Jem:

How many of those leads convert, but Yeah, definitely good to have those eight.

Jem:

Definitely better to have those emails than just

Jem:

comments on Instagram, but shell.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah, I like that.

Jem:

I'm Maritool till thing you sent me.

Jem:

That was a bit mind bending.

Justin:

I think about that all the time.

Jem:

How did you come across that?

Justin:

I just follow them.

Justin:

There are local analytical United States manufacturer and the founder, I believe

Justin:

Frank seems to run their Instagram and he just told the story one time back

Justin:

in 2019 about how they used to make crazy amount of parts, brass parts,

Justin:

like fittings, and they would bid them.

Justin:

This was before he started marketing.

Jem:

Okay.

Justin:

bid them basically at a loss and then sell the scrap

Justin:

to make profit in the end.

Justin:

And I was just like, what?

Justin:

Like, God, I

Jem:

That's my that's my brain a little bit.

Jem:

Just trying to work the logic of that out.

Justin:

I think it's probably not uncommon.

Justin:

I would imagine.

Justin:

I mean, maybe it, maybe it is, but that competitiveness to try to take jobs,

Justin:

you've got to squeeze every little, last bit out in that kind of market.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

I mentioned that market's ultra competitive,

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

making little bras, threaded

Jem:

any small pop.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

So he's showing like a brass fitting on this post I'll share.

Justin:

Cycle time is 3.8 seconds.

Justin:

Part is made from one in one quarter inch hex brass and is 0.5, five long.

Justin:

You can make 220 pieces per 12 foot bar.

Justin:

Each bar was $66 30 cents in material.

Justin:

They bid 25 cents for the part, and then they would just

Justin:

make their profit on scrap.

Jem:

Wild

Justin:

Oh

Jem:

it does make me think about ask graph.

Jem:

Cause we didn't, we didn't have scrap that can be sent to the metal recyclers.

Jem:

So very rarely,

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

but we have a lot of timber sitting around.

Justin:

maybe we get into that.

Justin:

I want to talk to you about your workshop at some point, I have it on here,

Justin:

but I find it to be incredibly cool.

Justin:

I don't really know anybody, anybody else doing those kinds of things?

Justin:

Also your same thing with trying to compost your plywood or your

Justin:

scrap material to is pretty cool.

Justin:

Like both, both great things that I think I'd love to hear you

Justin:

discuss in a little more detail.

Jem:

Yeah, we'll get into that another time,

Jem:

but yeah, certainly no shortage of remnant material in our workshop that

Jem:

we could convert into sales with a bit of time and energy, but so easy

Jem:

to just be led into the next project and into the next sheet of plywood.

Justin:

I'll give myself a little credit.

Justin:

We do these certain parts, those little shelves behind me.

Justin:

I've been setting up the small and the medium sized ones to be

Justin:

a patterning of kind of two rows.

Justin:

So it only takes like, 15 inches by a full sheet with.

Justin:

And so you can basically cut them out of any type of little scrap.

Justin:

And especially if we've been prototyping them, you just need a little piece to cut

Justin:

two sets of tape two sets the shelves.

Justin:

And I'm hoping that over time that helps reduce waste for, like you're

Justin:

saying, like we have a little bit of scrap go make some shelves,

Jem:

Cool.

Justin:

just, using like NC programs a little bit smarter than I used to

Justin:

in the past, I think with not having to have somebody set ups, but then

Justin:

being able to just post using the patterns more smart, more intelligently,

Justin:

find that pretty, pretty nice.

Justin:

More smartly

Jem:

great sentence.

Justin:

Words.

Jem:

Yeah, I think there's a lot of power in making good fixtures

Jem:

to deal with small remnants.

Jem:

Absolutely.

Jem:

I'm going to go off and do my unplanned.

Jem:

Photo-shoot

Justin:

I can't wait to see your unplanned.

Justin:

Photo-shoot

Jem:

maybe I'll spend an hour or so before, before he gets

Jem:

here to do some planning.

Justin:

what's your storytelling method.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I'm hopefully gonna get this dang thing put together so we can do some ducting.

Jem:

wait to see.

Justin:

I know.

Jem:

Does it seem strong?

Jem:

Is it going to

Jem:

snap

Justin:

here's what's crazy about it as I was definitely concerned.

Justin:

PETG is very flexible.

Justin:

As

Justin:

Ricky has told me a few times, what's crazy.

Justin:

And I suppose I should know this from the minimal engineering

Justin:

classes, I took you put the clamp on for the duct, super strong.

Justin:

It like completely makes it rock solid.

Justin:

I haven't even attached to this part yet, but I think the same thing will apply

Justin:

that when they're both attached, then you're just waiting on it to de-laminate.

Justin:

Maybe

Justin:

this is my, my only concern there, but it's

Jem:

thickness.

Justin:

it was 70,000 on the first one.

Justin:

This is 75, mil,

Justin:

maybe

Justin:

about two mill.

Justin:

Oh

Jem:

Sweet.

Jem:

Thanks.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

We're just going to have to like, you know, yes.

Justin:

I really want to like sell them, but I think we need a

Justin:

torture test that a bit because

Justin:

it's

Jem:

for sure.

Justin:

time I've ever tried this kind of thing.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

That'd be cool.

Justin:

Hopefully it improves.

Justin:

If nothing else, it has way more volume.

Jem:

Fantastic.

Jem:

Yeah, go and break it and then make a better one.

Justin:

Yes.

Justin:

Hopefully break.

Justin:

Just, just make stuff.

Jem:

I,

Justin:

Somebody said that once.

Jem:

someone did.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

All right, I'll see you later, man.

Jem:

See ya.

Jem:

Bye.

Justin:

But I listened to this podcast that they never have a sign off.

Justin:

They don't say buy, they just cut it off suddenly.

Justin:

I've listened to 50.

Justin:

A hundred of them gets me every time.

Justin:

I'm like my podcasts stop.

Justin:

Like what's wrong.

About the Podcast

Show artwork for Parts Department
Parts Department
Justin Brouillette (Portland CNC) and Jem Freeman (Like Butter) discuss CNC machines, their product design and manufacturing businesses, and every kind of tool that they fancy.

About your hosts

Profile picture for Jem Freeman

Jem Freeman

Co-founder and director of Like Butter, a CNC focussed timber design and manufacturing business in their purpose-built solar-powered workshop. Castlemaine, VIC, Australia.
Profile picture for Justin Brouillette

Justin Brouillette

Founder of Portland CNC & Nack