Episode 11

11 - Justin Got Covid

Justin satiates his FOMO from Jem getting Covid, Jem reports on the Tool Show and the beauty of flying headspace. Both make big progress on their product lines and Dall-E is induced.

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DISCUSSED:

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Please note: Show notes contains affiliate links.

  • Justin got Covid
  • Baby Pants update
  • Tool shopping - industry update - thinking about 5-10 years ahead?
  • Intuition vs Excel - or why haven't I bought a Prusa yet?
  • Flying headspace - sketchbook! 🤝
  • Planning Products with Scarce Materials
  • Diary - End of planned time but have more quotes to do?
  • Making it - Aaron 😢 (Note: Death discussed)
  • Dall-E Mini

Accountabilibuddies

  • KittaParts v2 - ahhhhh it works!
  • Nack Wall Kits - Kitting

SUPPORT THE SHOW


Show Info


HOSTS

Jem Freeman

Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia

Like Butter | Instagram | More Links


Justin Brouillette

Portland, Oregon, USA

PDX CNC | Instagram | More Links

Transcript
Justin:

This is my favorite by far baby pants with metal ducting for legs,

Justin:

especially the middle one is fantastic.

Justin:

Can you hear me nice?

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Plenty of cough syrup.

Justin:

I guess bill, mostly after the fever broke, I've been much better.

Justin:

More morale wise, I guess, to like 16 hours of it was low grade,

Justin:

but just fever is never fun.

Justin:

Sweating and cold and sweating and cold and

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

How long have you been down?

Jem:

A couple of days.

Justin:

a sore throat on Sunday, Monday felt great,

Justin:

tested positive and then fever.

Justin:

Yeah, my wife, but at the same time.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

It's been fun.

Justin:

The weird things of like, just trying to get medicine, normal cold

Justin:

medicine, when you have a virus, you have all these delivery services,

Justin:

but like all of it's out of stock and you can't get people to just

Justin:

deliver you cough you can't go get it.

Justin:

I don't weird.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Cool.

Justin:

I decided, we needed symmetry in everything we do.

Justin:

So I figured I would also get COVID so that we could have this fairness

Justin:

and everything we this podcast.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

I appreciate that.

Jem:

Thanks.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

different

Justin:

Yeah Are you

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Good,

Jem:

good?

Jem:

too much to not getting

Jem:

I guess I've

Jem:

but other than that, pretty good.

Jem:

I had a series of like child wake ups and then a faulty smoke

Jem:

alarm going off at 4:00 AM.

Jem:

So I was just like, I rolled out of bed at four 30, I say, all right.

Jem:

Let's go to work.

Jem:

hear

Justin:

Well day both been exhausted and like falling asleep at like 7:00

Justin:

PM, one night, which is strange for me.

Justin:

And then last night I couldn't fall

Justin:

do

Justin:

had enough sleep.

Justin:

Now

Jem:

Have you seen

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

I was thinking last week.

Jem:

Timecode when I drink coffee and then make it

Justin:

that sounds neurotic though.

Jem:

as I was laughing

Jem:

maybe I'm enjoying your audio edits,

Justin:

I should

Jem:

are very good.

Justin:

glad that the last episode makes sense, because I was a little

Justin:

bit in a COVID fever finishing it.

Justin:

I was like I'm glad Jem listened to this because that whole like mental

Justin:

confusion thing

Justin:

is very true, especially when you're in the heat of the fever part.

Jem:

looking to this weeks.

Jem:

See how we

Justin:

It's just like only Don talking.

Don:

Let me loose!

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

I liked the fact that Don made an appearance

Jem:

so have you been in work, space at all?

Jem:

You've just been recovery mode.

Justin:

like

Justin:

little bit.

Justin:

I've been trying ahead a bit of a tussle with trying to get

Justin:

the Prusa to work remotely and lucky Ricky got in and reset it.

Justin:

But I've been sending some of the baby pants.

Justin:

Which just continues to have issues with weird things.

Justin:

like The minor changes that you can do to all of a sudden then have,

Justin:

it's called like overhang, right?

Justin:

it's like printing and you try to rely on the space below

Jem:

yeah.

Justin:

of like the slicer software, it doesn't really

Justin:

show you what's going to happen.

Justin:

So why it's so irrelevant to call it baby pants, but on the butt side, right.

Justin:

That's where we're getting weird overhanging mess basically.

Justin:

And it just looks like squiggly lines that don't fall into a good situation.

Justin:

The alternative is support or change your design and If it's printing fine until all

Justin:

my tests were printing fine until I was like, let's do the final one and then it's

Jem:

Cool.

Jem:

So of course

Jem:

you're printing in a controlled box.

Jem:

Aren't you like your temperature control?

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

I mean, it's controlled by only what the Prusa creates.

Justin:

It's not any additional features, but it should be actually pretty dang good.

Justin:

There's also this whole thing I didn't understand prior to

Justin:

getting the Prusa early was you can get moisture in your filament.

Justin:

And then that causes basically many explosions as it's coming out.

Justin:

You know, like your toothpaste situation, where you squeeze

Justin:

it, it goes to that basically.

Jem:

those talk of, they said the treasure last week, because a lot

Jem:

of what we saw was printing yeah,

Jem:

plywood

Jem:

we ran technicians

Jem:

for beers and one of them was talking building

Jem:

haven't

Jem:

for their

Justin:

Yeah

Jem:

I think they were running a Markforged X seven,

Jem:

so super fancy printer.

Jem:

But yeah, a big I think they'll, they'll critical of how

Jem:

it

Jem:

filament was shipped and that they'd made an even more moisture proof

Jem:

container for it to be stolen in.

Jem:

But yeah, I didn't know that previously, that that was

Justin:

definitely adds some complication.

Justin:

It'd be

Justin:

I

Justin:

tests on our

Justin:

of I that anyway.

Justin:

drying

Justin:

oven.

Justin:

There's all these different factors that I

Justin:

filament

Justin:

To have to deal with it.

Justin:

just

Justin:

deal

Jem:

Totally.

Jem:

Well, yeah, production printings, a different game, right?

Jem:

To just prototyping bits and bobs on it.

Jem:

Very

Justin:

an

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I'm very curious to hear about this tool show.

Justin:

How was this?

Jem:

it was good.

Jem:

I got more out

Jem:

it

Jem:

I was going partly for fun.

Jem:

When, you know, a bit of a work trip with my friend will have probably mentioned

Jem:

he's getting into printing in a big way.

Jem:

And so he was going, so we went together.

Jem:

It was a good thing, but yeah, I wasn't expecting to, come back with

Jem:

a machine tool or I didn't even have any really specific areas that I was

Jem:

looking to research other than getting some new tooling suppliers for like

Jem:

the thread mill that we use on the pencil sharpener, which got confiscated

Jem:

off me and security anecdotally.

Jem:

That was fun.

Jem:

Um,

Justin:

Of it then

Justin:

I didn't know you made through.

Jem:

not, they took it off me, thankfully it was a, a chipped tool and

Jem:

another but now I got more out of it.

Jem:

So

Jem:

I to try

Jem:

with like the Autodesk who were there

Jem:

those kinds places

Jem:

reps and just checked out a

Jem:

show

Jem:

groundbreaking, but it was really good it wasn't those knives

Jem:

of woodwork or timber there.

Jem:

it's all I'd like to see

):

Jem, It's called Turning.

Jem:

the world.

Justin:

disappointing, but it's don't I like seeing the difference

Justin:

too, but it's like, they're going to, your current better haven't been

Justin:

in this space since uh, of bunch of

Justin:

I bought the router in 2017 and I went to a, basically a woodworking

Justin:

to

Justin:

routers there and it was like the best place to

Justin:

in that space

Justin:

makers I

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

since then, I've basically that's pretty

Justin:

like

Justin:

one show.

Justin:

It's, it's mostly metal and now I'm kind of like, oh, both.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

That's cool.

Jem:

It's just nice to be exposed to different things.

Jem:

But yeah it was interesting kind of walking around the show with

Jem:

the lens of which be around in five because like 3d additive moving

Jem:

definitely down the road and be like, cool.

Jem:

If invested X A valuable

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

in

Jem:

years time.

Jem:

But that was cool.

Jem:

I was gonna production, the 3d

Justin:

no expert at it.

Justin:

I've kind of

Justin:

the quality

Justin:

I basically ignored it all through school because was like my opinion sh know, crap.

Justin:

think today like

Justin:

basically if you picked it up, fall apart expensive.

Justin:

Like the type we had I, it just

Justin:

ask you about last year or so, I've gotten the FDM FFF style where it's

Justin:

basically a little Play-Doh extruder.

Justin:

And after watching that for so long, it's both impressive, but also seems

Justin:

really archaic in a certain way.

Justin:

You know, it's like if we, if we had that idea in laser printing, for

Justin:

example, we would be waiting all day for one piece of paper to come out.

Justin:

You know, like if it only came out of one little thing, like, can

Justin:

we do the laser printer version of this, where it comes out?

Justin:

Just like, you know, real quick, It's got like a bajillion little ink heads to

Justin:

a plotter, I'm hoping that's the kind of advancement because I feel even kind of

Justin:

weird trying to go about making production parts for like the dust boot on this one.

Justin:

Like it keeps thinking, do I need to invest in a better printer?

Justin:

Is thing to doing it with?

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

But

Jem:

Oh, that's yeah.

Jem:

That's what I was going to ask

Jem:

Um

Jem:

How do you, cause I said

Justin:

yeah

Jem:

How do you go about processing?

Jem:

that because can't put a normal

Justin:

yeah to be honest, I've never considered selling it

Justin:

as a service because of this.

Justin:

It doesn't seem like a professional service to me because it's so easy

Justin:

to take off the shelf and print and I don't see us making any ROI on.

Justin:

Printing other people's things like it's just so for other people to CNC hourly

Justin:

our intention of buying printers in the first place was kind of like

Justin:

Saunders always talks about making things for your business to improve it.

Justin:

But then all of a sudden it was like, oh, we could potentially

Justin:

make these couple parts for our products we're thinking about.

Justin:

And those seem pretty durable, like basically weird funnels and things

Justin:

like that for dust collection is kind of where we've ended up with it.

Justin:

And I'm not sure yet that's, my plan as of right now.

Justin:

And if it proves to be either not high enough quality or durable or something,

Justin:

but I mean, we've been using it and it's.

Justin:

It seems incredibly durable at this point.

Justin:

I'm expecting it to last for quite a while.

Justin:

Like those little port dust boot ports.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

I'm sure there'll be another step.

Justin:

A big consideration for me is if we're selling 10 of these a week, for some

Justin:

reason, thankfully, we'll be buying more printers is my only thought

Justin:

to it at this

Justin:

point.

Jem:

But how, like, how do you like say you're making it printing parts for your

Jem:

own product line, a product line yourself?

Jem:

That 11 hours of

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yes.

Jem:

It's the cheap,

Jem:

where

Jem:

a

Jem:

I

Jem:

that?

Jem:

Like, I'm just through it now, do assume that one day you'll

Jem:

have to pay an injection molded parts and then you price it now as

Jem:

to or

Jem:

part?

Jem:

Or do

Jem:

it would

Jem:

alley right on printer some value?

Jem:

Yeah, I've always been because just the time involved

Jem:

for

Jem:

of, it's almost free discharge for bit a resin plastic whatever is.

Jem:

And imagine

Justin:

real.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I don't answers.

Justin:

don't really consider it.

Justin:

in some of products think we're selling is,

Jem:

and

Justin:

charge the hour be beneficial,

Justin:

an or

Jem:

Yep.

Justin:

in contrast

Justin:

it It would

Justin:

on that like It's it's

Justin:

don't usually have a lot of interest in that kind of pumping of parts out.

Justin:

But the, that the electricity costs would be a lot more of a consideration,

Justin:

but I think it uses 180 Watts an hour, you know, at full printing.

Justin:

So it's pretty minimal and really you're just considering the filament

Jem:

I suppose this is sort of come to my mind because in the last year

Jem:

we've gone from a single CNC machine to three, and then I've also given

Jem:

up my role as laid machinists.

Jem:

So Johnny's Slade machinists.

Jem:

We have an employee who runs up to three machines simultaneously,

Jem:

and I've been a bit confused about how to, how to price that

Justin:

Yeah, no.

Jem:

it's like, yes, quoted independently as if it's running machine.

Jem:

But then in reality, know, in a dream

Jem:

track of the at some point

Jem:

he John's reporting his time.

Jem:

So he's reporting his time as an operator, but he's also

Jem:

um

Jem:

Cameron's time and Trinity's time and the

Jem:

keeping

Jem:

that are doing

Jem:

on

Jem:

terms I mean the simplest way about is just three machines and an operator

Jem:

at the same yeah, it's something that perplexes me a little bit and I haven't

Jem:

worked out how to deal with it, but,

Justin:

I've said before.

Justin:

I feel really strange that we're still not data.

Justin:

I think it's probably going to come yeah, but we stringent about And I

Justin:

would, I would question of, so I'm

Justin:

of

Justin:

running

Justin:

that's that's kind of four

Justin:

tracking?

Justin:

I

Justin:

running

Justin:

my best answer was you can basically keep that time.

Justin:

And so that way we would basically like modify it after the fact.

Justin:

But in terms of like calculating your time for costing and stuff like that, it's

Justin:

honestly do you get to that final number?

Justin:

And the only thing I can think is you have to add it all.

Justin:

And divide it back down to like, what's the total amounts, but sometimes

Justin:

those numbers then become crazy.

Justin:

like not reasonable hourly

Jem:

yeah, yeah,

Justin:

And I don't get that either.

Justin:

So we need somebody that has a business degree.

Justin:

I think what's your business manager say?

Jem:

multiple machines.

Jem:

Sarah and I kind of in the same boat, we don't quite know how to deal with it.

Jem:

In the past, we've always just applied a similar hourly rate to a

Jem:

machine the machine tool upright.

Jem:

So we've for ourselves and we've of basically

Justin:

that's kind of what I did too.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Hopefully somebody has.

Justin:

Answer to this, because that

Justin:

is an interesting, I mean, I don't want it to be super complicated though.

Justin:

Like

Jem:

No, no,

Justin:

the same thing you give.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Like I think, solved in the sense, but also something that's a curiosity of,

Jem:

like, is there a better way to do this?

Jem:

I dunno.

Justin:

that we

Justin:

to do any of that data tracking the first place make sure that

Justin:

accidentally not making money.

Jem:

Yes.

Jem:

Totally.

Justin:

And

Justin:

the just

Justin:

there was in

Justin:

just kind applied the same right To

Justin:

wildly wrong.

Justin:

out

Justin:

three times less than it been, you know, my hourly rate.

Justin:

And I just never really caught it.

Justin:

making way more profit job than we

Justin:

I

Justin:

problem, right.

Justin:

That I could see being a way bigger problem.

Justin:

every year you're like, well, home money.

Justin:

be

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

And that's the good thing about that?

Jem:

Or I guess if you don't track it, you don't know.

Jem:

Or like, if there's a question that you can't answer, it's probably

Jem:

worth answering it just to make sure that everything's okay.

Jem:

Working out.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Cool.

Justin:

So I

Justin:

haven't, you brought up

Jem:

A will and I were chatting about this last week when we're up there, if

Jem:

the, conundrum of growing a business to a point where, you know, and I've

Jem:

mentioned this like about my discomfort, about investing in tools now without

Jem:

sort of some level team approval.

Jem:

But we're discussing that like, cool.

Jem:

If, you know, I've built a business to a point very much just on intuition

Jem:

and making things up on the fly and doing what felt right at the time.

Jem:

And how do you balance that?

Jem:

You know, almost 15 years of growth and intuition.

Jem:

Against a budget in a spreadsheet of like, kind of where we're at Like

Jem:

we're planning 20, 23 financial year budget, is a fairly new process for us.

Jem:

year, just gone.

Jem:

Totally value doing a budget forward.

Jem:

And, but conflicted against month, the old may, would be just like, cool.

Jem:

I'm buying

Jem:

that

Jem:

I'm buying a laser cutter

Jem:

machines

Jem:

no again, no answer.

Jem:

It was

Jem:

have

Jem:

that got going moment, but um,

Justin:

than lot things, but,

Justin:

budget going into like a sliding world was probably a pretty good

Justin:

understanding the

Justin:

It be the right idea and definitely something I keep stable,

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

yesterday

Justin:

not considering buying any new trying to keep the ones we

Jem:

totally.

Justin:

fairly treacherous at the moment with the way that especially, I feel

Justin:

the U S economies are going right now.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

And I think that's a very wise, sorry, safe approach to, to

Jem:

be honest or retain your cash.

Justin:

Not that a purse is going to break your most businesses budget.

Jem:

I know, but everything stacks up.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

I think, oh, it's going tangenting here, but I think, the

Jem:

most valuable things I got out of

Jem:

that trip

Jem:

travel show was flying, being the air an hour, each way.

Jem:

I'd forgotten how amazing that Headspace is.

Jem:

Like it's the most unaccountable time the phone's off you strapped in a seat

Jem:

with like the sketchbook comes out and I got productive, critical design

Jem:

thinking done in those two hours of flight in like the last two months.

Jem:

Like it was just so good to just punch out some work is awesome.

Justin:

as well.

Jem:

in a fever just like away, like page after page are disgusting, I wouldn't

Jem:

I imagine it Especially

Jem:

but

Jem:

we're going on a little

Justin:

You're like rain man all over around you people next Like, what is

Justin:

And

Jem:

yeah.

Justin:

so much

Jem:

I'm still not

Jem:

like well

Justin:

time than I have

Jem:

Yeah,

Jem:

Yeah,

Jem:

situation

Jem:

some machines on the way up.

Jem:

And I designed some products on the way back.

Jem:

It was good.

Jem:

It's a good time.

Justin:

Oh boy.

Jem:

Yeah, that's

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I love that too.

Justin:

I haven't flown

Justin:

just at

Justin:

2019

Justin:

Have you had any challenge with trying to plan your product costing

Justin:

or just like design features basically based on having scarce materials,

Justin:

has this been a thing and now you've changed some of your stuff, but is it

Justin:

been continuously changing for you.

Jem:

I'm going to say, no, there's certain materials that we've run out

Jem:

of and we'll probably never get again.

Jem:

Like, I think we machined the last sheet of 18 male or made a radiata plywood.

Jem:

Which is a product we've been using for 10 plus years.

Justin:

Just pine, right?

Jem:

yeah, it's as

Justin:

Basically.

Jem:

and and it's not that we can't get it at all.

Jem:

Like we could go out and find it again, but our supplier has stopped

Jem:

bringing in that particular product.

Jem:

And it was just a really good moment for us to say, cool.

Jem:

All right.

Jem:

That's the last of the south American radiata, we're going to get, let's

Jem:

switch that to Australian local stock.

Jem:

So it's not that it's impossible for us to get it.

Jem:

It was just, yeah, a real good

Jem:

what you're

Justin:

assuming Yes

Justin:

then.

Jem:

yeah, it's more expensive to get the local stuff.

Jem:

And yeah.

Jem:

There's challenges, but nine nothing.

Jem:

ball stuff being

Jem:

Like the new, kid of parts update won't have any film place plywood in it because

Jem:

that's Birch we still have access to.

Jem:

But I expect it to run out as well point, or just get like it's already gone up I

Justin:

saying

Justin:

us to

Justin:

Chosen to troublesome products, materials out of Yeah, I like yeah.

Justin:

we set off with the knack so

Justin:

line

Jem:

and

Justin:

stupidly expensive

Justin:

things like these just way that it hangs on the wall, kind of joinery, I just

Justin:

I don't know how to make alternatives.

Justin:

That would be as or as reliable and to change it testing it

Justin:

in a significant way, time.

Justin:

I wouldn't want to put that in people's hands and not know how it works.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

I overthink all these things, I would rather that than something falling

Justin:

apart on somebody where I've kind of come to is just trying to go with

Justin:

basically the same thing you're doing.

Justin:

It's not a local product necessarily, but like the apple fly is I

Justin:

understand they're going to keep doing everything they can to keep making it.

Justin:

And the core is Birch, but the price will go up and they'll

Justin:

keep finding a way to get it.

Justin:

I don't know if that means like blood money or what, but hopefully not.

Justin:

I feel like they're a better company than that.

Justin:

You know, trying to figure out how to get that here.

Justin:

That's the only thing I can think of is to do that or to not make like the plywood

Justin:

boxes that we've been making for it.

Justin:

And just trying to finally biting the bullet of that's the way we have to go.

Justin:

There's no, like, hoping.

Justin:

Baltic Birch comes back.

Jem:

Yeah, it's hard.

Jem:

Isn't it?

Jem:

When you've made a whole bunch of design decisions around the qualities of

Jem:

Birch and then to try and sub that out

Justin:

yeah.

Jem:

is challenging.

Jem:

We're running into that now because with, you know, I suppose at some

Jem:

level, we're just making a flat out kind of ethical decision to go call.

Jem:

Let's get local materials rather than imported materials, well aware that

Jem:

that's going to introduce all sorts of production challenges, which are

Jem:

already running into like the hoop Pines, nowhere near as consistent in

Jem:

terms of its thickness across the sheet.

Jem:

So we're doing do much more sort of sanding tolerance, control, new challenges

Jem:

with like setting the material thickness to start, like where do you pick the

Jem:

nominal material thickness out of a sheet and then what the sand to, and

Jem:

also at such tricks and challenges, even just little things like Ola Val sort

Jem:

of route a manual rabbit table tooling is set up for 12 and 18 mil stock.

Jem:

Whereas all the hoop pine sort of 12.7 and 19 like subtle variations in thickness.

Jem:

Alright, retooling resetting up resetting processes.

Jem:

But yeah, coming back to your point, like just structural details, like

Jem:

I'm doing some product development for a client at the moment, we machined

Jem:

parts this week that Ben looked at was like, oh, I comfortable about how

Jem:

run

Jem:

Baton engages with that rebate.

Jem:

Like, the hoop is going to de-laminate.

Jem:

I was like, oh yeah, no, that's a really good point.

Jem:

That is a risk.

Jem:

We test that thinking about it now, it's like, there's definitely

Jem:

Birch structuring, like, but assumptions going on there.

Jem:

Like if that had been machine in Bert, I don't think anyone would have

Jem:

questioned it, but because it's in this material, that's subtly Waco.

Jem:

Like nothing can compete with that, like insane toughness of, but,

Justin:

I was curious

Justin:

and some don't feel

Justin:

we always I feel

Justin:

even pre

Jem:

Um,

Justin:

And like voids.

Justin:

Do you have a

Jem:

yep.

Jem:

Yeah, definitely

Justin:

it after you cut the parts or

Jem:

depends on the project.

Jem:

I prefer not to feel anything the kind of stuff

Jem:

affecting the usability.

Jem:

Like it's a desktop or a tabletop there's that void, that's going to actually fill

Jem:

up with stuff then absolutely feel that.

Jem:

But if just purely aesthetic, like ingrain void that machine through, I'd to fill I

Jem:

feel like I being more to the material.

Jem:

this maybe

Jem:

I don't like the Phil

Jem:

started to anger in situation, yeah, certainly more, more voids in the

Jem:

coupon than we used to in the Birch.

Justin:

Yeah, That's for a structural scenario.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

It's

Justin:

that was going to be your answer, those features Cause

Justin:

some of those

Justin:

honest

Justin:

And it, it seems like you have over time,

Justin:

way

Justin:

move to those kind of other solutions that that you can get locally.

Justin:

Are

Jem:

recently, to be we've been, it's forced hand, which has

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yes.

Jem:

it's

Justin:

Got a ton of RFQ is of course the first couple of days of being home sick.

Justin:

Uh, I think I got like four on Monday.

Justin:

Some of them easy nos, but yes.

Justin:

That's not yeah, cutting some and I, I I battled this idea for out.

Justin:

I'm not strictly to my default diary times.

Justin:

Right.

Justin:

Like, like you've described, but I have had this a couple of times, be it any

Justin:

scenario it's R D quoting it's sales and I'm always one that's like when I'm in a

Justin:

flow of working that I don't ever want to leave that flow, like whatever that is.

Justin:

for example, like, even with quotes, it's like I'm in this

Justin:

head space of crunching numbers.

Justin:

What do you do when you hit the end of your, quoting block, but

Justin:

you have to close to do that.

Jem:

I

Jem:

feel

Jem:

like, oh, good question.

Jem:

I don't find flow.

Jem:

very often.

Jem:

I feel like I'm interrupted so regularly that I get dragged away.

Jem:

Before I have a chance to think, oh, I'd like to keep doing that.

Jem:

And then it's two hours later.

Jem:

I'm like, what was I doing?

Jem:

Ah, that's right.

Jem:

Oh, well, I'll finish that tomorrow.

Jem:

But yeah, I know.

Jem:

I think the way I've structured my default diary things and with

Jem:

some sort of logic all time.

Jem:

So my quoting window stops when lunch starts never on Down's tools

Jem:

and comes into the lunch room.

Jem:

And often I'll push through like halfway through lunch or even all

Jem:

the way through lunch to try and finish a quote to get it ready.

Jem:

So Sarah has got it to send after lunch.

Jem:

So like I stretch that time through lunch sometimes, but there's still kind of.

Jem:

I read them to the day that makes sense to put down whatever I'm doing.

Jem:

Same with R and D as people come the building, kind finishing

Jem:

my R and D time, there's nice.

Jem:

It'd be continue that Headspace, but I find it really breaks

Jem:

work

Jem:

and my rhythm as people into the building,

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

And

Jem:

breaks down the spice.

Jem:

I was eating and I move into the

Jem:

just

Jem:

sort of natural

Jem:

stick to

Justin:

I would like

Justin:

And uh, just independently day and kind of check in

Justin:

morning and

Justin:

done or something like that.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

I, it's not important.

Justin:

I'm trying bash out for myself.

Justin:

I want to this?

Justin:

Or is the productivity more important?

Justin:

I think probably the schedule's probably because then I'm getting done what

Justin:

I've intended to and all but sometimes they don't, like I said I don't do.

Justin:

Like I don't have a production prep thing to do.

Justin:

we don't have a new job.

Justin:

And then I do stick through, but I think maybe, maybe the answer is when

Justin:

I have enough do in each of these segments, then you go with those,

Justin:

you go with the thing then the next block rather than sitting there.

Justin:

And, and it's, it's just a tough challenge because what happens when

Justin:

people are expecting quotes and you just keep, you can only get done to it.

Justin:

that time period.

Justin:

Like when he, I guess you just stay late.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Look, if you've promised someone something, yeah, I stay late.

Jem:

But I find the two hours a day, I get through quotes so much more

Jem:

consistently and people are waiting, like getting stuff much quicker

Jem:

than I used to be in the old model.

Jem:

In the old model stuff would sit for, weeks sometimes.

Justin:

Hm.

Jem:

And then I'd have, you know, huge rush of quoting and

Jem:

got a whole bunch of stuff out.

Jem:

And then as a result would have a huge rush of work.

Jem:

And then I would stop quoting because we were too busy and we'd have this, like

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

structure.

Jem:

By being strict and only doing those two hours a day or trying

Jem:

to it's really just flattened out production wives most part, yeah.

Jem:

Certainly helped in that respect.

Jem:

I think something that the other tool that I think could be useful,

Jem:

which you know, is probably a little different between you and I.

Jem:

In terms of, I'm trying to weave my team, I'm trying to sort of

Jem:

routine distraction where possible.

Jem:

So we have a structure in place of like for my key staff, we have a

Jem:

designated time every day where we check.

Jem:

For Sarah it's you know, 10, 15:00 AM Cole or Aaron it's,

Jem:

you know, eight, 15 the morning.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

and whether that's, you know, and we try and keep lists through each other.

Jem:

pretty

Jem:

like badgering each other throughout

Jem:

important

Jem:

like, it's not urgent, put it on the list, put on errands Lewis, it on John's list.

Jem:

And then at the pre designated a time we both know we're going chat, it's like,

Jem:

cool, what have you got on nothing today?

Jem:

Go carry on.

Jem:

Or like, yeah, I've got a few questions.

Jem:

And that's, I find that a really way to like,

Jem:

this

Jem:

distract each other, but also have a, known I dunno, do you, informally

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

the on slack

Justin:

be a lot more to Anyway, it was could never get anything accomplished when

Justin:

it was just like a, Hey, how do I fix

Jem:

yeah,

Jem:

is

Justin:

I totally see that.

Justin:

And I would try do same how

Justin:

to like home when we had more

Justin:

throughout the

Justin:

I'm distant,

Justin:

Just

Jem:

yeah, totally.

Justin:

there's less, it's almost like an office with a closed door.

Justin:

I think everybody's always been really respectful of trying to not

Justin:

be distracting with each other, but it just happens like you got the

Justin:

CNC running and there's a problem.

Justin:

And you're the one that did the cam, like who are you gonna go talk

Jem:

just Yeah.

Justin:

Um, yeah, I dunno some point I'm sure.

Justin:

And.

Justin:

yeah

Justin:

to have somebody else that's doing the cam probably as well as

Justin:

somebody else that's in between.

Justin:

You know, that's actually helping manage those things too.

Justin:

And that'll, that'll make a big difference get

Justin:

there.

Jem:

Did you listen to the

Jem:

could be tough

Justin:

I did,

Justin:

I was a little I guess hesitant, I didn't know how sad I was going to be.

Jem:

Were you sick at the

Justin:

What did I, is it less yesterday?

Justin:

I think I listened to it, kind of

Jem:

I

Justin:

playing with slicing, maybe pants and listening to

Justin:

that and uh, yeah, that was good.

Justin:

And yeah, I dunno.

Justin:

It's I mean, you could tell like Jimmy talking through his, his friend and Trump.

Justin:

yeah

Justin:

that he's very emotional.

Justin:

I can't imagine being able about it so soon after even

Justin:

communicate as much as he did.

Justin:

I have not heard that show before, so I don't know much

Justin:

about the other Bob Clagett.

Justin:

Is he the, I like to make stuff guy that's all right.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

don't really follow him much either, but no of him.

Justin:

I dunno.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

It really resonated.

Justin:

I've always had a huge gratitude towards anybody that's worked

Justin:

for us in almost everybody to a T has been incredibly dedicated.

Justin:

And I mean, we don't get into each other's personal lives much, but like

Justin:

when we're at work, it's respectful.

Justin:

And I say I have even love for a lot of them that have worked for us and.

Justin:

I definitely related to the feelings he was having of losing somebody

Justin:

and just trying always not take that granted, I think is a good memento,

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

definitely worth listening.

Jem:

which I

Jem:

um, Progress on the

Justin:

Yes.

Justin:

A little bit.

Justin:

I uh, that you were making progress on your, so I felt, I

Justin:

felt the peer pressure to continue.

Justin:

And I dug into the kits a little bit more in terms of playing with it.

Justin:

And especially like you said, in Shopify and I'm using this simple bundles plugin

Justin:

that I've been playing with and it.

Justin:

As with everything there's limitations on the bundle plugin with variance and

Justin:

really the thing that I think I'm striking up against now, do it in a more way is I

Justin:

wanted to be able to have kits that could use either vertical or horizontal panels

Justin:

as being an option you could choose.

Justin:

But as of yet, I can't figure out how to do that with this bundle plugin.

Justin:

So I'm sure I could,

Jem:

a

Justin:

you know, escape out of that and do it a different way.

Justin:

But I think I may have to just have like, I have one called

Justin:

like knack bowl apply kit.

Justin:

It might have to be horizontal or some kits may only be certain

Justin:

orientations or something like that.

Justin:

that's one of my weird constraints I'm running into, but I have multiple

Justin:

kits and I'm putting stuff into them, which is a big progress.

Justin:

I worked on some graphics.

Justin:

I think I might've sent that to you last week, too, where it's kind of

Justin:

taking all of the objects that go on the wall and then trying to make

Justin:

them into something that's scale representation of how much take up.

Justin:

And I'm going to try and put those on each of the objects in hope that that

Justin:

helps people understand how much they can throw onto each wall themselves.

Justin:

And the other thing I had a thought of is you could do

Justin:

automatic kind of discounting.

Justin:

And my whole intent is, you know, with a kit, your erases our cart value, right.

Justin:

also is a benefit to them if they order more at the same time.

Justin:

So I thought, well, if you buy a kit and you want to add something else, I

Justin:

think I can throw in like an automatic discount of those other things that

Justin:

happens at the same time, as long as it's kind of the right formula.

Justin:

It's amazing how you just try some of this stuff, like you've been

Justin:

saying you get, you get somewhere.

Justin:

He had some progress made.

Justin:

feels

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

It's like, like my canopy has, but it's being informed by the tool.

Jem:

And if the tool is Shopify and the constraints, what can I can and can't

Jem:

do I find yeah, super effective.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

That's great.

Jem:

That's fine.

Jem:

I really like your graphic style, by the way.

Justin:

Of that one.

Justin:

I sent you.

Jem:

Not just in general, like

Jem:

all the, all your graphic collateral on your website and

Jem:

bits and pieces you've sent me.

Jem:

It's nice.

Justin:

Thanks.

Justin:

I'm probably a one trick pony in terms of, I don't have a lot of variability in it.

Justin:

It's kind of like, my style is the one style I have.

Jem:

Great.

Jem:

So it needs to be, I remember when I was studying industrial design at uni

Jem:

and I remember a comment from one of the, I think it was a graphic design

Jem:

lecturer that we were industrial.

Jem:

done this sort of publication outcome.

Jem:

And I remember a graphic design lecturer about how he really liked

Jem:

limits with

Jem:

the graphic

Jem:

of

Jem:

design cohort, very sort of

Jem:

people would

Jem:

graphic

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

weren't really aware

Jem:

reason

Jem:

sort of like I think he described it as navel

Jem:

um Let's sort with industry stuff, just how do we communicate

Jem:

ideas in play and effectively,

Jem:

design thing

Jem:

in

Jem:

my

Jem:

to

Jem:

in rhino using hatch

Justin:

I definitely know my And there was lot they

Justin:

of you're describing in architecture, where it not capitalize the first

Justin:

design underscores all place no I'm sure I of that too,

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

call

Justin:

my brother was in a portion design school at one point is a

Justin:

of, in looking at and like And I remember he told me some years ago,

Justin:

really like a Nack product has turned

Justin:

feel

Justin:

or something, a more straightforward name basically like an

Justin:

Ikea, crazy, you know, like.

Justin:

Something that doesn't really make any sense.

Justin:

And he was like, I don't know.

Justin:

I don't really think you're that kind of person.

Justin:

I think you name it straightforward as possible.

Justin:

And that's been the easiest path for me after that.

Justin:

It was like, I don't need to over-complicate it what it is.

Justin:

Not really like innovating names here.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

That's good advice.

Justin:

All right.

Justin:

So has I say your kid of parts is a

Jem:

Kayla Kiva?

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Has made some good progress.

Jem:

I definitely feel the pressure of this.

Jem:

Like as the week progresses, I'm like, shit, I really need to make some progress.

Jem:

So it's very effective.

Jem:

Made some solid progress yesterday.

Jem:

I'd already committed to dimensions, but sort of finally

Jem:

modeled up all the components.

Jem:

The new components infusion gave them part numbers, skews, whatever.

Jem:

And then when Josh got in yesterday, I was like, cool, here's all the parts.

Jem:

And here's the starting configurations that I want.

Jem:

And he muddle them up so I could start rendering and thinking.

Jem:

Getting them online.

Jem:

So it's a few, few more components than the existing good apart system.

Jem:

So it need to sort of think how is communicating the different

Jem:

configurations and we'll probably offer a few different kit sizes this

Jem:

time, sort of small, medium, large, rather than just one big kit yeah.

Jem:

And that's That was good.

Jem:

for

Jem:

scared when I I

Jem:

are mad it

Jem:

like iteration bought one last or whatever oh, no, I missed out on.

Jem:

Yeah, but I don't know to transition to any product, there's always going

Jem:

to be that stop one and start another, and we're not the first hard stop.

Jem:

to service new ones, not backwards compatible, but

Justin:

like a well-known sunset date, you know, we'll do it another And there'll

Justin:

have

Justin:

people that see it.

Justin:

and people someone who's had a year training.

Justin:

And I sent a bunch of warnings,

Jem:

that.

Jem:

feeling

Justin:

this there's you're going I don't know it's just going to happen.

Justin:

And I, I have the same

Justin:

a We'll continue

Justin:

I try to limit kinds of problems

Justin:

part

Justin:

a want people mad.

Justin:

it wears on you, I think.

Justin:

And probably if we just find a way to ourselves when you make those decisions,

Justin:

it's easier to make the best ones for the business when you don't have to

Justin:

directly the customer service messages,

Jem:

totally.

Jem:

Yup,

Justin:

I do all of them.

Jem:

yup.

Justin:

um,

Justin:

Yeah, I know that, that, I'm sure that's driven way too many of my

Justin:

thoughts over the last year about the wall and stuff like that.

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Official.

Justin:

That's good.

Justin:

I, it seems like you just like rocketed from, it seemed like a big problem we were

Justin:

talking about with all the dimensions.

Justin:

Then new me seems to have the decent amount and then all of a

Justin:

sudden you were making parameters.

Justin:

So good

Jem:

just, just committing.

Jem:

And thanks.

Jem:

Feel YouTube fusion, rendering video by the way,

Jem:

I've been meaning to watch that

Jem:

fusion doesn't

Jem:

And I was

Jem:

to

Jem:

Cause I've thinking, I wonder what Justin knows about fusion rendering that

Justin:

Yeah

Jem:

sitting down yesterday afternoon to start rendering

Jem:

you

Jem:

it like, cool.

Jem:

I just put it on the other screen and just watch I think I'm across most

Jem:

of what you talked about, but then just being, seeing the way you were

Jem:

using those light admitting tubes

Justin:

Hmm.

Jem:

off camera, I was like, I'd played with light admitters

Jem:

a little bit, but never sort

Jem:

all

Jem:

it.

Jem:

Looking just terrible.

Jem:

And so I just persisted for an three minutes.

Jem:

I was like, oh actually, this this is nice.

Jem:

Like I can make this work.

Jem:

So that was cool.

Justin:

make it super easy.

Justin:

Like, know, you got

Jem:

yeah,

Justin:

I

Justin:

final rendering that looks okay.

Jem:

yeah,

Justin:

can make while

Justin:

I'm glad it's somewhat helpful.

Justin:

It's pretty low views, but the people that have

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

Cool.

Justin:

of

Justin:

Dolly thing at

Jem:

to light it up too

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

This is going to be a mess.

Justin:

thing called Dali and it's like an AI app and you can

Justin:

type in what you wanted to say.

Justin:

And so I started off with CNC baby pants and it creates.

Justin:

and I was much

Justin:

combinations of those things.

Justin:

So this was pretty terrible.

Justin:

And you can, I'll probably post some of these videos where

Justin:

you can go watch the YouTube.

Justin:

This one's a little bit better.

Justin:

Baby pants with metal ducting for legs that are red.

Justin:

it's mostly just baby pants that look like red.

Justin:

This is my favorite by far baby pants with metal ducting for legs,

Justin:

especially the middle one is fantastic.

Justin:

Two podcast guys who are friends, the

Justin:

faces are disturbing.

Justin:

I think we'll have to use this one.

Justin:

It's like a, a bad expressionists , The, baby writing a spindle with

Justin:

red pants kind of disturbing.

Justin:

I think I have one more, an Australian guy named Jim with a robot and

Justin:

the faces are just so strange.

Justin:

You have to kind of your way through basically dos have their

Justin:

like, server that you gotta try it.

Justin:

If I did these kind of COVID fever.

Justin:

So you wouldn't be surprised that they're a little strange.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

I found that entertaining.

Jem:

Cool.

Jem:

I'll have a go at that.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Excellent.

Justin:

There you

Jem:

Very good.

Jem:

Nice.

Justin:

All right.

Justin:

What do you, next step on you?

Justin:

You've handed off kit of parts.

Justin:

it on its way?

Jem:

No, I haven't handed it off, but uh, I think next step

Jem:

is building an app Shopify.

Jem:

yeah Again, do what you're doing.

Jem:

Try and build out the variant logic.

Jem:

Hopefully these renders will help to find the kit like pot quantities and stuff like

Jem:

yeah, to overthink not make regrettable decisions either somewhere in the middle.

Jem:

I really want to get them out this month if I can,

Jem:

we need a bit of web

Jem:

funny

Jem:

and also aware of like, now that I've of announced what doing on Instagram.

Jem:

I don't

Jem:

So

Jem:

they were about month, I don't to all uh, waiting for product that then doesn't

Justin:

yeah,

Jem:

created a bit of back pressure for myself.

Justin:

How do you, all,

Justin:

try not it

Justin:

do you do any type of pre-orders

Jem:

no.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Oh yeah.

Justin:

a

Justin:

update.

Justin:

Web

Justin:

I always have

Justin:

pretty

Justin:

at the end of these is I went to order a bunch of materials for

Justin:

baby pants to production runs

Jem:

and

Justin:

I'm

Justin:

on my path hopefully finding some

Justin:

buying something this drop

Justin:

definitely, I don't imagine going for them.

Justin:

so

Jem:

or

Jem:

To have in one

Justin:

yeah, hopefully, So I may do some form of like a, I don't

Justin:

want it extensively, but some form of backorders, so we know

Justin:

how much to kind of stock for and,

Jem:

Cool.

Justin:

and cause.

Justin:

And the printing, like we all know I've talked about, it's going to take

Justin:

some time to kind of keep up with that.

Justin:

yeah.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

It's it'll come as it comes, I think, I've never not shipped a product

Justin:

to somebody of yet dozen years.

Justin:

So not that anybody knows

Jem:

sure Okay.

Jem:

Have you thought about doing a pre presale for baby pants?

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Sorry.

Justin:

That's kind of what I was thinking.

Justin:

It was probably do some type of controlled backward

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Probably sell a few that we have stock for.

Justin:

Make the messaging clear that this is going to take a few weeks because

Justin:

the supply chain is a nightmare.

Justin:

The same thing that I've been ordering to test all of a sudden

Justin:

was like six to seven weeks out.

Justin:

And I was like, what?

Justin:

Wait, what, what?

Justin:

Now that I want it.

Justin:

It's not there.

Justin:

It has a little frustrated with that.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Hey, it is what it is.

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

this

Jem:

Awesome.

Jem:

sniffling mess

Jem:

I'll

Justin:

Off we go.

Jem:

I have, yeah.

Jem:

Feeling better in nighttime.

Justin:

think this helped a little bit.

Justin:

I was afraid my voice would go out, but I'm feeling all

Jem:

You seem pretty.

Jem:

seem pretty good.

Justin:

I haven't had a lot of talking, so maybe it's just been built up.

Justin:

Yeah, yeah.

Justin:

Have a good weekend.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

you too.

Jem:

Take care.

Jem:

Bye.

Justin:

But

Jem:

fall into hate.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Parts Department
Parts Department
Justin Brouillette (Portland CNC) and Jem Freeman (Like Butter) discuss CNC machines, their product design and manufacturing businesses, and every kind of tool that they fancy.

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Jem Freeman

Jem Freeman

Co-founder and director of Like Butter, a CNC focussed timber design and manufacturing business in their purpose-built solar-powered workshop. Castlemaine, VIC, Australia.
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Justin Brouillette

Founder of Portland CNC & Nack